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Bon

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Probably a stupid question but other than the scaling obviously there will be some base damages right?

I like your approach trying to make every single spell having specific use other than each class having 3 spammable spells and 15 useless ones.

/Mitsos
No there is no base damage, if you have 0 dc/mc/sc then the spell will do 0 damage.
of course that will never be the case tho, as even naked you will have base mc/sc/dc for your class.... The values for base stats have been changed they are not the standard euro 1s (e.g. 1 dc per 5 levels, its a bit more like 1 dc every 3/4 levels)

A good rule to go by in terms of spell levels... its roughly a 10% increase in damage per spell level.. e.g. level0 does 70%, level1 does 80%, level2 does 90%,and level3 does 100%. This isnt an absolute rule as there are exceptions, such as flamingsword which is more like (i think) 30% per level.

With the new images for older spells (fireball etc) its a shame to just use them for a few hours for them to be replaced by essentially the exact same spell, but with a different image (e.g. firebang > icestorm.. fireball > greatfireball).
Mir's design back in the day might have been ok, but it just dont seem right in todays MMOs, every spell should have some sort of usefulness.

Lets take wizard for example.

Fireball + Thunderbolt: You have a choice.. if target is line of sight, use fireball.. it does more damage... however your more likely to use thunderbolt purely because it doesnt require line of sight, but your takin a slight damage penalty over fireball. vs mobs ur probably going to use fireball as line of sight isnt going to be an issue, unless the mob is undead in which case ull use thunderbolt.. then later on flamedisruptor will replace fireball.
GreatFireball: your strongest single target spell... assuming line of sight, and of course a small cool down
Flamedisruptior: your main pvp single target spell, but still not as powerful as gfb
 
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squall777

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Apr 3, 2004
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Obviously i have no idea about the stats on your server on both items and mobs but if they are similar at all with euro at first lvls wouldnt it be a bit annoying being a caster with minimum mc/sc compared to a DC class without base stats?

Also if the analogy between mc/sc and dc is anything close to what we are used to (1.5dc per mc/sc ish) without base damages wouldnt that gimp a bit wizards/taoists endgame?

Probably you have thought about these things and have gone complete custom stats but mentioning it just in case.
 

mythonline

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Oct 2, 2005
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No there is no base damage, if you have 0 dc/mc/sc then the spell will do 0 damage.
of course that will never be the case tho, as even naked you will have base mc/sc/dc for your class.... The values for base stats have been changed they are not the standard euro 1s (e.g. 1 dc per 5 levels, its a bit more like 1 dc every 3/4 levels)

A good rule to go by in terms of spell levels... its roughly a 10% increase in damage per spell level.. e.g. level0 does 70%, level1 does 80%, level2 does 90%,and level3 does 100%. This isnt an absolute rule as there are exceptions, such as flamingsword which is more like (i think) 30% per level.

With the new images for older spells (fireball etc) its a shame to just use them for a few hours for them to be replaced by essentially the exact same spell, but with a different image (e.g. firebang > icestorm.. fireball > greatfireball).
Mir's design back in the day might have been ok, but it just dont seem right in todays MMOs, every spell should have some sort of usefulness.

Lets take wizard for example.

Fireball + Thunderbolt: You have a choice.. if target is line of sight, use fireball.. it does more damage... however your more likely to use thunderbolt purely because it doesnt require line of sight, but your takin a slight damage penalty over fireball. vs mobs ur probably going to use fireball as line of sight isnt going to be an issue, unless the mob is undead in which case ull use thunderbolt.. then later on flamedisruptor will replace fireball.
GreatFireball: your strongest single target spell... assuming line of sight, and of course a small cool down
Flamedisruptior: your main pvp single target spell, but still not as powerful as gfb

Finally some gm who understand the game :)

allow me to ask a few question about this comment though,

if great fireball is the strongest offensive spell in the game, do you still get it at a low level and easily from shop?
if there is no base damage, I am guessing you are not into people building a bit tankier build? (as base damage is what helps that type of build)
would you have different spells for different places? (with the elements system)
 

Bon

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Obviously i have no idea about the stats on your server on both items and mobs but if they are similar at all with euro at first lvls wouldnt it be a bit annoying being a caster with minimum mc/sc compared to a DC class without base stats?

Also if the analogy between mc/sc and dc is anything close to what we are used to (1.5dc per mc/sc ish) without base damages wouldnt that gimp a bit wizards/taoists endgame?

Probably you have thought about these things and have gone complete custom stats but mentioning it just in case.
all classes have base mc/dc/sc ... even with 1 mc, the spell is going to do damage.

I wouldnt say its 1.5 but ye the general rule is DC > MC > SC.... honestly these dont really matter and coulda all been made the same but its nice to stagger them a bit.

with the ability to change spell damage on the fly it wont be difficult to find a balance.. if all wizard spells are underpowered we can just buff them all by 30% for example


Finally some gm who understand the game :)

allow me to ask a few question about this comment though,

if great fireball is the strongest offensive spell in the game, do you still get it at a low level and easily from shop?
if there is no base damage, I am guessing you are not into people building a bit tankier build? (as base damage is what helps that type of build)
would you have different spells for different places? (with the elements system)
greatfireball is the strongest hitting spell at 180% damage... flamedisruptor is the strongest dps spell ... if we're talking vs humans/living mobs anyway.... thunderbolt is king vs undead mobs.

Maybe im mis understanding what people are saying here about base damage...

If you have 0 MC, the attack will do 0 damage... all spells work off a % of your main stat (if you have mc10-20, it takes a random number between 10-20 and then depending on your spell level etc it does a % of that number as damage).

People can build tankier builds... but the high AC/AMC items are likely to be a low lower in MC, resulting in a weaker attack... Im guessing by base damage you mean flamefield for example should do 50 damage + 110% of MC.
Problem with base damage is it does not scale at all.. that 50 damage could be OP at low levels, then useless at high levels. We dont feel theres a need for base damage as you'll always have a good amount of base MC from leveling up.
 

Jamie

LOMCN Developer
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Mar 29, 2003
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A good rule to go by in terms of spell levels... its roughly a 10% increase in damage per spell level.. e.g. level0 does 70%, level1 does 80%, level2 does 90%,and level3 does 100%. This isnt an absolute rule as there are exceptions, such as flamingsword which is more like (i think) 30% per level.

Suggestion on how to do spells.

"FireBall deals (3/6/9/12) Damage +130% MC"

Rather then Increase the Ratio per level (100%/110%/120%/130%) Keep the ratio the same but change the BaseValue of the spell?

(Similar to how MOBA games operates with their spells)
 

mythonline

Known Cheater
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Oct 2, 2005
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all classes have base mc/dc/sc ... even with 1 mc, the spell is going to do damage.

I wouldnt say its 1.5 but ye the general rule is DC > MC > SC.... honestly these dont really matter and coulda all been made the same but its nice to stagger them a bit.

with the ability to change spell damage on the fly it wont be difficult to find a balance.. if all wizard spells are underpowered we can just buff them all by 30% for example



greatfireball is the strongest hitting spell at 180% damage... flamedisruptor is the strongest dps spell ... if we're talking vs humans/living mobs anyway.... thunderbolt is king vs undead mobs.

Maybe im mis understanding what people are saying here about base damage...

If you have 0 MC, the attack will do 0 damage... all spells work off a % of your main stat (if you have mc10-20, it takes a random number between 10-20 and then depending on your spell level etc it does a % of that number as damage).

People can build tankier builds... but the high AC/AMC items are likely to be a low lower in MC, resulting in a weaker attack... Im guessing by base damage you mean flamefield for example should do 50 damage + 110% of MC.
Problem with base damage is it does not scale at all.. that 50 damage could be OP at low levels, then useless at high levels. We dont feel theres a need for base damage as you'll always have a good amount of base MC from leveling up.

as for the base damage, I think the idea is you are saying that at lvl 40 for example, you are doing X damage with the spell as earned it by getting lvl 40.

the scaling obviously will be lower, so if you had 0 + 1.5mc, now you will have 50 + 1.2mc for example.

This has 2 advantages by term of builds, if you have base damage and lower scaling, you can build more tanky equipment while not sacrificing as much damage, and you can decide to build elements which scale with the base damage.

Its not really worse or better, wiz in most mir servers have much lower dps (which is dumb considering they are much less tanky), so much so that you are forced to build dps pretty much, and go glass cannon pretty much.

Generally it also really depends on how you build the monsters, if you build them with higher amc wiz are forced to build dps to counter it, but if they have lower damage or better ways to inflict it, wiz might build tankier.

I just would like to ask about special repair, as the lack of it in many servers seem to be anti fun mechanism (you cannot hunt massive amount of monsters together to save your dura)
 

squall777

Golden Oldie
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Apr 3, 2004
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I have to admit it sounds very interesting and different to make spells actually used in different situations and have them scale completely off stats instead of the good old "yay i got FF/Meteor/Bliz gg now".

As you said you can easily adjust em on the go by changing one number if something goes wrong.

Also since you are going that way with spells take a really good look at the items and make as many OP items as possible instead of the good old "lvl30 ring ac1-3 mc2-6 lvl40 ring ac2-4 mc4-8 etc etc".
By OP items i mean items with weird stats like MC10-0 or mc0-20 or agil+10 or ac20-20 and in general provide some itemisation choices between players compared. Thats what lacked in your previous servers imo with all the aztec supreme mir kits
 

Bon

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I have to admit it sounds very interesting and different to make spells actually used in different situations and have them scale completely off stats instead of the good old "yay i got FF/Meteor/Bliz gg now".

As you said you can easily adjust em on the go by changing one number if something goes wrong.

Also since you are going that way with spells take a really good look at the items and make as many OP items as possible instead of the good old "lvl30 ring ac1-3 mc2-6 lvl40 ring ac2-4 mc4-8 etc etc".
By OP items i mean items with weird stats like MC10-0 or mc0-20 or agil+10 or ac20-20 and in general provide some itemisation choices between players compared. Thats what lacked in your previous servers imo with all the aztec supreme mir kits
Theres quite a wide variety of items on the server atm, but im planning on fleshing it out a bit more over the next few weeks as live approaches

Atm there is basic item "sets" every 8 levels, with a defensive version available (these items are not at all rare and are basically trash/shop items)
e.g. level71 brace
EmeraldBrace dc7-18
EmeraldBrace* amc4-8 dc4-8

Got 4 different item sets that are rare .. they are not multi class,
Ancestor Wheel amc4-14 dc16-28

Got a bunch of euro items that are rare but not as rare as the above sets:
Baek Ta Glove ac16-26 dc16-16 (these have a nice variation as typically braces are AMC)

Then in process of adding a bunch of crit chance / crit damage items.. theres a couple atm for example:
Critical Brace dc1-3 criticalchance 5%, critical damage 25%

Also a few other sets like agility / accuracy / a.speed:
Zoom Ring dc11-12 a.speed3
Accuracy brace dc11-12 accuarcy16


So ye the base is there.. but still needs a lot of work... I wanna add more random items with random stats, as well some unique item sets that might do life steal, HP sets, MP sets... all ideas are welcome

On majority of my servers ive always started the game with a similar item base to what we've got atm.. and I'll add to it as the game goes live.. I've always found my best work and ideas come from assessing the game when its live.
93
 

tenkaichi

Dedicated Member
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Jan 2, 2010
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One thing about mir i dont get is the massive flaw within the coding where a warrior needs Acc(hit) but a tao and a wiz dont have a spell hit variation, that would be a nice thing to add as warriors need more defence being front liners then two other stats Aspeed/Acc would be nice to see a new variable added into the game where them two classes cannot just stack SC/MC they need to go with gear the gives them abit of spell hit so at end game relation they dont have 2-3kits levelin pvp and a boss kit like a warrior does
 

Tyraes

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Apr 16, 2007
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Suggestion on how to do spells.

"FireBall deals (3/6/9/12) Damage +130% MC"

Rather then Increase the Ratio per level (100%/110%/120%/130%) Keep the ratio the same but change the BaseValue of the spell?

(Similar to how MOBA games operates with their spells)

I think this is probably the better way to set damage on spells as spells are level required (unless you've changed it on your server?) therefore any base damage you set should be relevant to the level requirement of the skill and its other levels.
 

DavidShaw

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Nov 3, 2007
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On OFFICIAL servers only the Second hit of TDB would ignore defence.

On Euro
when i played with /Mataleos
Both hits of TDB were always identical. (ie 50+50dmg)
also the total damage was always an even number(ie 100 106 108 etc)
Also you could hit a Character with 10-15Ac with both TDB hits with 7-8Dc [while naked].
These figures only support the fact that the first hit penetrated AC and the second damage was just the same as the initial damage.

People with MAX DC lower than the Targets MIN DC still hit them with both hits.

I dont know if fillipino mir or something else was different, but euro was full defence penetration.

servers have a problem with TDB because they allow Dc to drift too high and then they need auto pots to compensate or hp increases and it all goes out of whack.

Also, the difference between high rate and low rate is the availability of sun poitions/instant potions.
Instant potion servers negate the Hp difference between the 3/4/5 classes because MaxHp becomes irrelevant unless you can be 1hitted.


Jesus christ cmon guys, we've know these things since 1.4
 

Bon

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On Euro
when i played with /Mataleos
Both hits of TDB were always identical. (ie 50+50dmg)
also the total damage was always an even number(ie 100 106 108 etc)
Also you could hit a Character with 10-15Ac with both TDB hits with 7-8Dc [while naked].
These figures only support the fact that the first hit penetrated AC and the second damage was just the same as the initial damage.

People with MAX DC lower than the Targets MIN DC still hit them with both hits.

I dont know if fillipino mir or something else was different, but euro was full defence penetration.

servers have a problem with TDB because they allow Dc to drift too high and then they need auto pots to compensate or hp increases and it all goes out of whack.

Also, the difference between high rate and low rate is the availability of sun poitions/instant potions.
Instant potion servers negate the Hp difference between the 3/4/5 classes because MaxHp becomes irrelevant unless you can be 1hitted.


Jesus christ cmon guys, we've know these things since 1.4
Well luckily this server is not euro.

The server files have 5 different attack types

AC / ACAgility - AMC / AMCAgility - Agility

Doesn't take a genious to figure out what they mean, but basically it means its effected by that stat.

TDB 1st hit is ac agility - meaning the damage outcome is effected by your AC and it can be dodged/missed via agility
2nd hit is agility - meaning it ignores AC and AMC, and is only effected by agility and can be dodged/missed

so, by that logic you could say that 50% of TDBs damage ignores armour defense, similar to euro... TDB didnt completely by pass armour and shield on euro, it was more like 40%.




The server is still in testing... we have a few random people doing a small scale test atm then hopefully if theres no problems found, starting next weekend (hopefully) will be open beta.

Open beta:


  • Server will be online and open for all to log on and test
  • Server will stay in open beta until we feel its stable and bug free to go live
  • When we go live - all characters and items will be wiped (accounts will remain)... players that reached certain levels during beta (30/40/50/60+ etc) will receive a small reward to their account when we go live (this is to encourage people to play and test during beta and say thank you for helping)
  • There will be no pre-made characters, you will play and level as if it were live (possibly at x2 exp and x2 drop rates)
  • There will be regular reboots / new clients to download / things being added during the beta. If we need to reboot, then we will give some warning... but will want to get it done asap.
  • This will also give us time to iron out any bugs with auto patcher / people having blank screens etc

Obviously i know a lot of people are waiting for the server and want it to go live asap... but these files have never been online before and its just far too risky to jump straight into a live environment. It's not fair to have to wipe the server because of a major bug is found say 2 weeks in... or it to be unstable and crashing a lot.

We will be with holding a few things from open beta, such as some new mobs/spells/caves and a couple of coding features... but the majority of stuff will be ingame as it needs to be tested. We are testing not only the coding side of things, but also the ingame balance of leveling speed / mobs / spells
 

Koriban

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I wouldn't do an open beta test at x2 of what your server's going to be. It gives people a false sense of how fast/slow it is to play on your server and can discourage people from playing afterwards.

If you want end-game things tested, just add an npc that instantly lvls you to X lvl and gives you a kit once you've reached a certain level (as a sort of reward for testing the early game stuff)

But it's entirely up to you, just giving some friendly advice. Will most likely pop on myself at some point. I'd post on your forums but it seems i'm still perma banned :rolleyes:
 

TheDayIDie

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I hate playing beta because I then get bored of doing it again the second time around, you say you will get a reward based on your level meaning if I was to play I would burn myself out grinding for a good reward, if I chose not to play I would feel that I would be at a disadvantage in live.
 

Bon

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If you dont want to do it twice, then simply dont play the beta and dont test.... I dunno what else to suggest really.

I dont want to do a closed beta as its unfair, its open to all.. if you want to pop on and test, please do.. otherwise wait for the release

---------- Post Merged on 13-09-2014 at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous Post was on 07-09-2014 at 09:11 AM ----------

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