Regarding Cheating

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Jest

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Breaking our rules will not go unpunished and we won't stand aside while it becomes commonplace to abuse servers in this manner.

You are not punishing them by banning their forum account. You are only punishing yourselves by letting them slip away under a new name.
 

Koriban

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What you should really be doing is offering incentives to server owners to get together and join an 'Anti-cheat Program', where they can collectively prevent cheats.

Why would that be LOMCN's job?

Wouldn't that be up to you, the server coder/creators, to ask about such a thing and to communicate between fellow coders? What more incentive could you want besides removing 90% of the cheaters who plague your Mir servers?

I'm interested in what you think an incentive would be, other than the mass removal of cheaters.
 
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accn11

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Why would that be LOMCN's job?

Wouldn't that be up to you, the server coder/creators, to ask about such a thing and to communicate between fellow coders? What more incentive could you want besides removing 90% of the cheaters who plague your Mir servers?

Why is moderating cheaters on private servers LOMCN's job? Wouldn't that be up to the server creators to ban people as they see fit? Why should that have any impact whatsoever on someone's LOMCN account?
 

Koriban

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Why is moderating cheaters on private servers LOMCN's job? Wouldn't that be up to the server creators to ban people as they see fit? Why should that have any impact whatsoever on someone's LOMCN account?

Cheating is strictly against LOMCN rules and always has been. Protecting the security and integrity of online servers is vital.

Without those servers, Mir has no future. When you use cheat programs you are causing damage to those servers.

==============================================================

/LOMCN Administration

LOMCN's rules on cheaters have always been the same. By cheating on a server you automatically, by choice, distance yourself from a part of the community that is decent and plays the game how it should be.

It is LOMCN's job to protect that decent community. Do you not agree?
 

accn11

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LOMCN's rules on cheaters have always been the same. By cheating on a server you automatically, by choice, distance yourself from a part of the community that is decent and plays the game how it should be.

It is LOMCN's job to protect that decent community. Do you not agree?

Protect? What, by banning a forum account? It takes literally a minute to make a new one, your system will achieve absolutely nothing.

There is far too much opportunity for people to exploit this system, especially seeing as probably the majority of server owners in the past have been corrupt in some way. I don't see this system working at all. Pass a few quid to a server owner, get them to falsify some logs, get someone banned.

Also, any decent cheater will change IP constantly, rending the entire system pointless anyway.
 

Tai

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tai what proof?
almost all servers are based on sourcecodes now, so it's really easy to fake proof as much as you want :p
ofcourse you could argue that you know ppl like milo and sam would never cheat, except then all you're doing is saying:
only ppl i dont like are going to go on the list :p

All reports will be dealt with on an individual basis. At no point did I say anyone who gets reported will be black listed.

I suggested hardware ID ban's, of course there's still ways around that but more effective than IP banning since if you have a dynamic IP it'll change as soon as you reboot the router, static IP requires contacting the ISP I think?

The rule should stay the same and cheaters banned (if I remember correctly I couldn't see ANYTHING on the forums)
Like when Leo banned me for the so called DC cheat,
It should be the same imo.

LOMCN don't really care about proof if it's one of the other Admins though, what they say is final and it doesn't matter how much you protest you won't win... flipping DC cheat of all things to accuse anyone of.

Dude, stop banging on about something that happened to you about 6 years ago. Leo is long gone, let it go.

You are not punishing them by banning their forum account. You are only punishing yourselves by letting them slip away under a new name.

Wrong, but thanks for your input. Of course we have already thought about all of these factors.
 

Far

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Why is moderating cheaters on private servers LOMCN's job? Wouldn't that be up to the server creators to ban people as they see fit? Why should that have any impact whatsoever on someone's LOMCN account?

People cheating on private servers determine the choice of which servers many legitimate people want to play.

If people don't play on a server that has cheaters they go elsewhere / stop playing mir altogether, the servers shut down for lack of users, mir development stalls because no one wants to make / progress with a server, LOMCN shuts down because no one plays Mir any more.

It is LOMCN's responsibility to protect all the servers advertised on it, to ensure users are coming to the forum, and to actively promote the progression and contingency of Mir. Cheaters that are actively out to ruin other players experience don't deserve to play private servers or be part of this community.
 

accn11

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People cheating on private servers determine the choice of which servers many legitimate people want to play.

If people don't play on a server that has cheaters they go elsewhere / stop playing mir altogether, the servers shut down for lack of users, mir development stalls because no one wants to make / progress with a server, LOMCN shuts down because no one plays Mir any more.

It is LOMCN's responsibility to protect all the servers advertised on it, to ensure users are coming to the forum, and to actively promote the progression and contingency of Mir. Cheaters that are actively out to ruin other players experience don't deserve to play private servers or be part of this community.

I fail to see how banning forum accounts will affect anything you mentioned.
It's up the servers to ban cheats, to keep their servers cheat-free and to keep players interested. Banning a few forum accounts isn't going to stop people cheating. Also, banning a forum account does not dismiss them from the community. Again, it takes less than a minute to make a new forum account. Nothing is solved.

Maybe instead of a meaningless gesture LOMCN should be working with server teams and trying to get coders working together in some "anti-cheat program", as mentioned before, to try fix all the glaring problems and...
Oh, wait. That isn't "LOMCN's Job", is it? Something that could be an effective, genuine solution simply dismissed. My bad.
 

DevilsKnight

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I fail to see how banning forum accounts will affect anything you mentioned.
It's up the servers to ban cheats, to keep their servers cheat-free and to keep players interested. Banning a few forum accounts isn't going to stop people cheating. Also, banning a forum account does not dismiss them from the community. Again, it takes less than a minute to make a new forum account. Nothing is solved.

Maybe instead of a meaningless gesture LOMCN should be working with server teams and trying to get coders working together in some "anti-cheat program", as mentioned before, to try fix all the glaring problems and...
Oh, wait. That isn't "LOMCN's Job", is it? Something that could be an effective, genuine solution simply dismissed. My bad.


As far as I am aware, they are being given the "Known Cheater" title, not being banned.

Accn11 can you code or know anything about cheats? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, what are you doing to help alleviate the glaring problem?
LOMCN can not be seen to be doing nothing about cheaters.
 

Far

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Maybe instead of a meaningless gesture LOMCN should be working with server teams and trying to get coders working together in some "anti-cheat program", as mentioned before, to try fix all the glaring problems and...
Oh, wait. That isn't "LOMCN's Job", is it? Something that could be an effective, genuine solution simply dismissed. My bad.

How would you suggest LOMCN help get to together server owners and work on this magical program? By arranging tea and biscuits at the local church?

Excluding any possibility of modifying the code throughout every server in any way (i'll get in to this impractical idea in a second), this anti-cheat program must only be able to consist of naming the cheaters, their IP, or their HWID - then actively blacklisting them across all the "anti-cheat" participants.

How would this work any different from being able to change your IP for LOMCN, or making a new account?

Now the second solution, modifying the source code of every participating server owners code, to do what? Stop every cheat at the source by stopping them from working? If only it were that simply we'd all have 100% bug free code by now and no one would need virus checkers because Windows was 100% secure.

This also negates the fact that we're running what, 4 or 5 different variations of server file code? Half of which is closed source.

So please, please enlighten us all to how this "anti-cheat program" would work. I'll provide the biscuits.
 

Tai

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I fail to see how banning forum accounts will affect anything you mentioned.
It's up the servers to ban cheats, to keep their servers cheat-free and to keep players interested. Banning a few forum accounts isn't going to stop people cheating. Also, banning a forum account does not dismiss them from the community. Again, it takes less than a minute to make a new forum account. Nothing is solved.

Maybe instead of a meaningless gesture LOMCN should be working with server teams and trying to get coders working together in some "anti-cheat program", as mentioned before, to try fix all the glaring problems and...
Oh, wait. That isn't "LOMCN's Job", is it? Something that could be an effective, genuine solution simply dismissed. My bad.

From stating the obvious to an uneducated guess on an impossible solution, all in 2 paragraphs.

Remind me why you're better suited to making these decisions?
 
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Skyline

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What you should really be doing is offering incentives to server owners to get together and join an 'Anti-cheat Program', where they can collectively prevent cheats.
What kind of incentives? Certain server owners are interested in one thing and one thing only - Money.

They won't want to help out other servers which may effect their user count and profit.
 

accn11

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How would you suggest LOMCN help get to together server owners and work on this magical program? By arranging tea and biscuits at the local church?

Excluding any possibility of modifying the code throughout every server in any way (i'll get in to this impractical idea in a second), this anti-cheat program must only be able to consist of naming the cheaters, their IP, or their HWID - then actively blacklisting them across all the "anti-cheat" participants.

How would this work any different from being able to change your IP for LOMCN, or making a new account?

Now the second solution, modifying the source code of every participating server owners code, to do what? Stop every cheat at the source by stopping them from working? If only it were that simply we'd all have 100% bug free code by now and no one would need virus checkers because Windows was 100% secure.

This also negates the fact that we're running what, 4 or 5 different variations of server file code? Half of which is closed source.

So please, please enlighten us all to how this "anti-cheat program" would work. I'll provide the biscuits.

Tea and biscuits would be a nice idea but I'd propose a slightly less sarcastic option; there are many great coders on these forums (you probably know them better than I do) many of whom will no doubt be more than happy to try and help fix problems. Some of these problems do get fixed and made public but most get fixed and stay behind closed doors, never getting released. I'm sure reaching out to server owners/developers and requesting they make some of their fixes public may certainly help. Will any comply? Well, you seem to have more faith in the Mir community than I do.

Mir will NEVER be a cheat-free game. Not by a long shot. I never claimed for one second that it ever could be. I'm simply stating that it's laughable to think than changing someone's forum title to "Cheater" will have any impact whatsoever. Seriously, think about it. What is it supposed to do? How is it a deterrent? Assuming someone is smart enough to be able to change their IP, this system isn't even going to catch them anyway!

From stating the obvious to an uneducated guess on an impossible solution, all in 2 paragraphs.

Remind me why you're better suited to making these decisions?

You completely ignored all points I made.

Can you explain how this will work? As far as I can tell, it will be very easy for cheaters to avoid, very easy to exploit (getting innocent people purposefully banned) and it's very easy to create a new forum account and a new identity. You haven't explained how this is a deterrent or how it will cut down on cheaters.
 
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DevilsKnight

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Tea and biscuits would be a nice idea but I'd propose a slightly less sarcastic option; there are many great coders on these forums (you probably know them better than I do) many of whom will no doubt be more than happy to try and help fix problems. Some of these problems do get fixed and made public but most get fixed and stay behind closed doors, never getting released. I'm sure reaching out to server owners/developers and requesting they make some of their fixes public may certainly help. Will any comply? Well, you seem to have more faith in the Mir community than I do.

Mir will NEVER be a cheat-free game. Not by a long shot. I never claimed for one second that it ever could be. I'm simply stating that it's laughable to think than changing someone's forum title to "Cheater" will have any impact whatsoever. Seriously, think about it. What is it supposed to do? How is it a deterrent? Assuming someone is smart enough to be able to change their IP, this system isn't even going to catch them anyway!


Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Far has already explained why this is pretty much impossible/impractical, there are so many different sources that people are using. Majority of which are closed source.

You clearly have no concept on basic programming?

Can you explain how this will work? As far as I can tell, it will be very easy for cheaters to avoid, very easy to exploit (getting innocent people purposefully banned) and it's very easy to create a new forum account and a new identity. You haven't explained how this is a deterrent or how it will cut down on cheaters.

As Tai has already previously stated, they will have to be adequate evidence for LOMCN to put people on the Known Cheater list.
 

accn11

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Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Far has already explained why this is pretty much impossible/impractical, there are so many different sources that people are using. Majority of which are closed source.

You clearly have no concept on basic programming?

I'm sorry, what?
I'm talking about an open-source, community effort to fix some of the bugs that are present in the mir files. If you're referring to the "anti-cheat program" I mentioned, I meant program as in a group of people working together on related projects. I certainly didn't mean an app to auto-fix all bugs :P
 

Tai

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Tea and biscuits would be a nice idea but I'd propose a slightly less sarcastic option; there are many great coders on these forums (you probably know them better than I do) many of whom will no doubt be more than happy to try and help fix problems. Some of these problems do get fixed and made public but most get fixed and stay behind closed doors, never getting released. I'm sure reaching out to server owners/developers and requesting they make some of their fixes public may certainly help. Will any comply? Well, you seem to have more faith in the Mir community than I do.

Mir will NEVER be a cheat-free game. Not by a long shot. I never claimed for one second that it ever could be. I'm simply stating that it's laughable to think than changing someone's forum title to "Cheater" will have any impact whatsoever. Seriously, think about it. What is it supposed to do? How is it a deterrent? Assuming someone is smart enough to be able to change their IP, this system isn't even going to catch them anyway!



You completely ignored all points I made.

Can you explain how this will work? As far as I can tell, it will be very easy for cheaters to avoid, very easy to exploit (getting innocent people purposefully banned) and it's very easy to create a new forum account and a new identity. You haven't explained how this is a deterrent or how it will cut down on cheaters.

It’s not about solving the problem, are you really that naïve? Or think that we are? It’s simply about enforcing our rules.
I’m not sure what relevance you see in someone creating a new forum account to their actions as a cheater in game?

No, I much prefer your idea of doing nothing.
 

Skepta

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Oh no... its not like people can make a new lomcn account is it... Oh no what are we going to do.
 

accn11

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It’s not about solving the problem, are you really that naïve? Or think that we are? It’s simply about enforcing our rules.
I’m not sure what relevance you see in someone creating a new forum account and their actions as a cheater in game?

No, I much prefer your idea of doing nothing.

I believe this idea is rather naive.
Whilst I will commend any action taken to remove cheats from the game I believe this one to be a waste of time.

Doing nothing will, unfortunately, have the exact same effect.
 

Celsius

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What kind of incentives? Certain server owners are interested in one thing and one thing only - Money.

They won't want to help out other servers which may effect their user count and profit.

What directly affects the amount of money? Happy players.
What makes players happy? No cheats.

There are a few things LOMCN could do for incentives.
- Recognition of servers actively part of it.
- Prominent advertisement for these groups of servers.

It can also be used as an unbiased place to securely hold the data on cheating, cheats and prevention.


LOMCN has absolutely no weight behind it to threaten players, it's been doing it for years and it's never worked. Time to try a new approach?
 
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