[C# Files] Apocalypse Mir

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squall777

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1 thing i would like suggest regarding balance is that its ok to have certain niche spells but you cant have the main spells of a class no matter their lvl rare. If sin balance for example is based on sneak or something like backstab then that spell simply cant be rare.

Main attacking/lvling spells like tdb, ff, (whatever is that spell that makes sins be on par with warriors) etc etc shouldnt be rare.
Spells like rage, blizz, curse etc is ok to be rare and perhaps thats a good thing since they are not necessary spells but give a decent boost.

Just dont do the same mistakes similar servers do over and over just because they thing thats the way it should be. I assure you having a warrior trying to lvl with slaying or a wizard tbolting in pvp is not the way it should be or at least its far from fun.

TL DR: DONT BASE YOUR BALANCE ON RARE LVL300 SPELLS.
 

Xx69xX

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I see things a little different from you. If you work hard enough or get lucky enough to get a rare spell, then you should be rewarded for this with a good amount of damage. Certain items/spells and other equipment will be rare and others will not. We have decided drop rates etc a long time ago. These will not change. But be assured classes as said previously, are as balanced as can be expected. If you are expecting an assassin to be able to toe to toe classes, then this is not the class for you. An assassin needs to be able to out damage every one in terms of DPS, but will not be able to sustain incoming damage for too long.
We have added spells to the assassin so its damage is not just coming from its melee swings, this should help the assassin do what it was supposed to do.... Assassinate.

-Apocalypse Team
 

squall777

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I see things a little different from you. If you work hard enough or get lucky enough to get a rare spell, then you should be rewarded for this with a good amount of damage. Certain items/spells and other equipment will be rare and others will not. We have decided drop rates etc a long time ago. These will not change. But be assured classes as said previously, are as balanced as can be expected. If you are expecting an assassin to be able to toe to toe classes, then this is not the class for you. An assassin needs to be able to out damage every one in terms of DPS, but will not be able to sustain incoming damage for too long.
We have added spells to the assassin so its damage is not just coming from its melee swings, this should help the assassin do what it was supposed to do.... Assassinate.

-Apocalypse Team

Yeap you are right. We do see things different. I would expect a melee class to be able to actually be able to...melee any other class with similar kit/lvls.

Ok its decided warrior it is for me ;p
 

NightScare

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I see things a little different from you. If you work hard enough or get lucky enough to get a rare spell, then you should be rewarded for this with a good amount of damage. Certain items/spells and other equipment will be rare and others will not. We have decided drop rates etc a long time ago. These will not chane.

-Apocalypse Team




Wrong, retarded, Wrong, Wrong retarded.


One second let me go Grind for 6 month on WOW for Frostbolt/Hamstring/Rend/Healing/Pennance/ShieldOfDisciple


Oh no wait, the most popular MMORPG in the world realises that SPELLS define a CLASS. without SPELLS. your just a ****ing sprite running around with your penis in your hand.

**** it, why dont we make all spells depend on Luck, then you can have a level 30 warrior without fencing just because he wasnt lucky enough, or a level 40 wizard melee'ing RakingCats.......How ****ing retarded is that. We can all just run around with wooden sword because we cant kill anything as we dont have any spells because they drop of bosses at 1/100000000000,


Would be so enjoyable...
 
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Adv

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Wrong, retarded, Wrong, Wrong retarded.


One second let me go Grind for 6 month on WOW for Frostbolt/Hamstring/Rend/Healing/Pennance/ShieldOfDisciple


Oh no wait, the most popular MMORPG in the world realises that SPELLS define a CLASS. without SPELLS. your just a ****ing sprite running around with your penis in your hand.

**** it, why dont we make all spells depend on Luck, then you can have a level 30 warrior without fencing just because he wasnt lucky enough, or a level 40 wizard melee'ing RakingCats.......How ****ing retarded is that. We can all just run around with wooden sword because we cant kill anything as we dont have any spells because they drop of bosses at 1/100000000000,


Plus one. Iv said it before and ill say it again, if there was ANYTHNG TGA taught us..... BETA TEST......... And, GIVE SPELLS.
 

squall777

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Im also afraid we will see spells 1/10000 to lvl up after his "work hard get rewarded" comment...
 

thedeath

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lol i think i'll agree with the rest here:
it's ok to have some spells hard to get, however:
if you assume a class like wizard needs FF to lvl, then he should get FF
it's pretty much a joke to offer a balanced/fair server if you make it so only a few lucky ppl can actualy lvl fast (aka those who got lucky enough to get their top lvling skills)
i have no objection to some skills being rare, but you need to BALANCE it (aka give ppl base skills and not make every single lvl 4x skill rare)

biggest stupidity i've seen in almost every mir server: a wiz who gets luck/has a few friends that get lucky and gets FF can suddenly lvl 10times faster then others who didnt get lucky? (how can you make a balanced server if 1 lucky skill drop makes you better then anyone else who spend 3times more time ingame?)
 

Xx69xX

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Wrong, retarded, Wrong, Wrong retarded.


One second let me go Grind for 6 month on WOW for Frostbolt/Hamstring/Rend/Healing/Pennance/ShieldOfDisciple


Oh no wait, the most popular MMORPG in the world realises that SPELLS define a CLASS. without SPELLS. your just a ****ing sprite running around with your penis in your hand.

**** it, why dont we make all spells depend on Luck, then you can have a level 30 warrior without fencing just because he wasnt lucky enough, or a level 40 wizard melee'ing RakingCats.......How ****ing retarded is that. We can all just run around with wooden sword because we cant kill anything as we dont have any spells because they drop of bosses at 1/100000000000,


Would be so enjoyable...

Plus one. Iv said it before and ill say it again, if there was ANYTHNG TGA taught us..... BETA TEST......... And, GIVE SPELLS.

If im honest, a little disappointed in these replies. How can you judge something you have not tried. How do you know anything about spells on Apocalypse, even basic ones? You couldn't know this, as you have not tried it yet. I know there are not servers that are often coded on LOMCN, most are just copies, but Apocalypse has been re-coded several times, and has adjustments made from beginning to end game spells/mobs/stats.

You say players need all spells to utilise their power, but please elaborate the difference in having all the spells to only the basic ones? There is not. Balance is balance, if no 1 has new spells, or everyone does, the game = balanced, the minute certain classes get new skills, they will have a slight advantage, but just like in Any MMO (as you suggested wow) the effort you put in, the more you are rewarded.


The fact that we have already spoken out that we have added at least 2 new spells per class + the high amount they already have, what makes you assume that all spells will be rare?

Im confused where I said everything will be rare?


I also feel that these replies insinuates that you want a high rate, unfortunately Apocalypse is not a high rate server, you will have to play for your new equipment on here, we feel that if you put the effort in, you deserve the rewards (effort does not mean hours, but effort to actually hunt and not be a SZ player :P).

-Apocalypse Team

---------- Post Merged at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:51 PM ----------

lol i think i'll agree with the rest here:
it's ok to have some spells hard to get, however:
if you assume a class like wizard needs FF to lvl, then he should get FF
it's pretty much a joke to offer a balanced/fair server if you make it so only a few lucky ppl can actualy lvl fast (aka those who got lucky enough to get their top lvling skills)
i have no objection to some skills being rare, but you need to BALANCE it (aka give ppl base skills and not make every single lvl 4x skill rare)

biggest stupidity i've seen in almost every mir server: a wiz who gets luck/has a few friends that get lucky and gets FF can suddenly lvl 10times faster then others who didnt get lucky? (how can you make a balanced server if 1 lucky skill drop makes you better then anyone else who spend 3times more time ingame?)

To answer your last question. Easily. Who says that FF will be 10X stronger than TS?

Im so confused where iv said spells will be crazy rare.

-Apocalypse Team
 

Jicaa

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Best option nowerdays is to give everyone every spell as they level.

Just lock them at 1 level before max then have books that drop make the spell max level.

This way lucky people get an advantage still, but nothing game breaking.
 

squall777

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Apr 3, 2004
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You say players need all spells to utilise their power, but please elaborate the difference in having all the spells to only the basic ones? There is not. Balance is balance, if no 1 has new spells, or everyone does, the game = balanced, the minute certain classes get new skills, they will have a slight advantage, but just like in Any MMO (as you suggested wow) the effort you put in, the more you are rewarded.

Well no really u never mentioned anything about rare spells or whatever but there were many posts regarding balance (mostly war vs sin) where you mentioned new spells etc. Usually and especially on low rates new spells mean rare high lvl spells. Actually not just usually but always. So i posted something regarding the rareness of the BASIC spells which should be basicly non-existant since balance in mir=spells.

Now regarding your question about having all spells or not and the difference it makes let me give u few examples about at least what i mean basic spells

Warrior
TDB is warrior's main spell. A warrior without tdb kills 3x slower than a war with it. This applies to both pvp/pve.
Spells like FS/rage/profield/CHM etc they are also mandatory spells but their impact isnt as big on dps compared to tdb or no-tdb. So yes those spells could be rare and give a nice 20% boost on X stat or a bit faster lvling etc and apply the luck/effort/reward thing you want

Wizard
FF is wizard's main spell unless you have changed something. TS can be equally strong as FF but without FF wizard simply can use HALF THE CAVES. So if its rare the difference between a wiz with FF and wiz without FF if u have say 20 caves is 10 huntable caves. Quite a lot dont u think?
Spells like MS/Blizz can be high lvl and rare and again you can apply on them your luck/effort/reward thing

Tao
Well taos are and always were a **** class. They were only playable on ben's servers and i guess they will be a 2 button class here as well (poison/buff).

Sin
You mentioned u will fix the balance between war vs sin and the fact that according to u a sin shouldnt toe to toe a warrior (even tho he is a melee class) through a spell thats called Assasinate or whatever. Basicaly without "Assasinate" a sin cant fight a war and in pvp he is just a bad verison of warrior.
He could have some niche spells that will be rare but i cant comment on it because i dont know what "Assasinate" does or what sin spells actually work on these files.

TL;DR
Not all spells have to be shop spells even though this is an option many successful mmo's have followed.
Having basic/main/required spells of a class rare though should never be an option.
 

Xx69xX

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Dec 2, 2005
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Well no really u never mentioned anything about rare spells or whatever but there were many posts regarding balance (mostly war vs sin) where you mentioned new spells etc. Usually and especially on low rates new spells mean rare high lvl spells. Actually not just usually but always. So i posted something regarding the rareness of the BASIC spells which should be basicly non-existant since balance in mir=spells.

Now regarding your question about having all spells or not and the difference it makes let me give u few examples about at least what i mean basic spells

Warrior
TDB is warrior's main spell. A warrior without tdb kills 3x slower than a war with it. This applies to both pvp/pve.
Spells like FS/rage/profield/CHM etc they are also mandatory spells but their impact isnt as big on dps compared to tdb or no-tdb. So yes those spells could be rare and give a nice 20% boost on X stat or a bit faster lvling etc and apply the luck/effort/reward thing you want

Wizard
FF is wizard's main spell unless you have changed something. TS can be equally strong as FF but without FF wizard simply can use HALF THE CAVES. So if its rare the difference between a wiz with FF and wiz without FF if u have say 20 caves is 10 huntable caves. Quite a lot dont u think?
Spells like MS/Blizz can be high lvl and rare and again you can apply on them your luck/effort/reward thing

Tao
Well taos are and always were a **** class. They were only playable on ben's servers and i guess they will be a 2 button class here as well (poison/buff).

Sin
You mentioned u will fix the balance between war vs sin and the fact that according to u a sin shouldnt toe to toe a warrior (even tho he is a melee class) through a spell thats called Assasinate or whatever. Basicaly without "Assasinate" a sin cant fight a war and in pvp he is just a bad verison of warrior.
He could have some niche spells that will be rare but i cant comment on it because i dont know what "Assasinate" does or what sin spells actually work on these files.

TL;DR
Not all spells have to be shop spells even though this is an option many successful mmo's have followed.
Having basic/main/required spells of a class rare though should never be an option.

I completely understand your points, but this does not apply to Apocalypse, there will not be a spell that gives a class a jump from 200 damage a hit to 500 damage a hit, this is the point im trying to make and have implied several times.

I will give you an example of this:
Lets say we make Magic Booster rare.
This will not be a game changing book for a class to receive as we have altered the output stats completely. As intended it will enhance the player slightly, but not enough to frustrate players to the point were the wizard in question will become too "op" to fight or compete with.
(All speculation above, not releasing the drop rates!)

Did you watch the video trailer, it shows Taos have 2 new Damaging spells, I don't think they will be just a stand and buff class, although we would like to keep their support role in tact slightly.

-Apocalypse Team
 

squall777

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I completely understand your points, but this does not apply to Apocalypse, there will not be a spell that gives a class a jump from 200 damage a hit to 500 damage a hit, this is the point im trying to make and have implied several times.

I will give you an example of this:
Lets say we make Magic Booster rare.
This will not be a game changing book for a class to receive as we have altered the output stats completely. As intended it will enhance the player slightly, but not enough to frustrate players to the point were the wizard in question will become too "op" to fight or compete with.
(All speculation above, not releasing the drop rates!)

Did you watch the video trailer, it shows Taos have 2 new Damaging spells, I don't think they will be just a stand and buff class, although we would like to keep their support role in tact slightly.

-Apocalypse Team

Yes but if those 2 damaging spells are rare dont we go back to square one? Taos with these spells can do damage and have some more fun compared to the rest who will be buff bots. Anyway i guess u get my point.

I still believe no matter how u coded em there are game-changing spells as explained on previous post (tdb does do double dmg, ff gives wizards double the places to hunt, "assasinate" will allow perhaps a **** class to have a chance in pvp, those 2 tao spells will give taos an extra role)
 

TheDayIDie

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I completely understand your points, but this does not apply to Apocalypse, there will not be a spell that gives a class a jump from 200 damage a hit to 500 damage a hit, this is the point im trying to make and have implied several times.

I will give you an example of this:
Lets say we make Magic Booster rare.
This will not be a game changing book for a class to receive as we have altered the output stats completely. As intended it will enhance the player slightly, but not enough to frustrate players to the point were the wizard in question will become too "op" to fight or compete with.
(All speculation above, not releasing the drop rates!)

Did you watch the video trailer, it shows Taos have 2 new Damaging spells, I don't think they will be just a stand and buff class, although we would like to keep their support role in tact slightly.

-Apocalypse Team

Also a 3rd to come *hint hint*

Also I want to clear this up, people are complaining about RNG, the whole game is based off probability and luck. Saying that a player will be over powered and level faster than everyone else because they get lucky and have lets say FlameField drop is the same as saying that the person who is lucky and gets luck 7 first will be in the same boat of being OP. As soon as someone gets luck 7 you want us to hand out luck 7's to everyone? That defeats the objective of the game - the way I see it is that the whole mystery of finding where items drop and getting them drop as a competitive system e.g. (player vs player) or (guild vs guild) is what makes mir. I agree balancing needs to be issued but not in the way that everything should be handed to the player.

P.S. to add - Tao spells will be tinkered with, I personally don't want these new tao spells to make tao's power leveling gods but to make them be able to go do a little bit of solo gold hunting or a little bit of leveling here and there. This can be discussed at a later stage.
 
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Jicaa

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Also a 3rd to come *hint hint*

Also I want to clear this up, people are complaining about RNG, the whole game is based off probability and luck. Saying that a player will be over powered and level faster than everyone else because they get lucky and have lets say FlameField drop is the same as saying that the person who is lucky and gets luck 7 first will be in the same boat of being OP. As soon as someone gets luck 7 you want us to hand out luck 7's to everyone? That defeats the objective of the game - the way I see it is that the whole mystery of finding where items drop and getting them drop as a competitive system e.g. (player vs player) or (guild vs guild) is what makes mir. I agree balancing needs to be issued but not in the way that everything should be handed to the player.

P.S. to add - Tao spells will be tinkered with, I personally don't want these new tao spells to make tao's power leveling gods but to make them be able to go do a little bit of solo gold hunting or a little bit of leveling here and there. This can be discussed at a later stage.

I don't think they want everything handed to them, they just see how having spells(A major role in every MMO) rare is really stupid too do, it's a really outdated system that may of worked back then, but now it is causing limitation to your gameplay. Item's should be what creates a players power, not spells.
 

Xx69xX

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I don't think they want everything handed to them, they just see how having spells(A major role in every MMO) rare is really stupid too do, it's a really outdated system that may of worked back then, but now it is causing limitation to your gameplay. Item's should be what creates a players power, not spells.

This statement confuses me.
Lets say we give every spell to every player on login, What then decides the balance of the power is the items. Its the same concept, the only difference is, the way Mir has always run is that items + spells = most power. Changing it will still have the same impact, unless we give every 1 the exact same gear.. but then it becomes a different type of game. People come to LOMCN to play Mir because they love the gameplay.
I know that's how I feel anyway.

I don't want to keep going around in circles, all I can say is trust our judgement in the understanding of players frustrations in class balance, we have worked very hard to make as balanced as fair a server as we can

-Apocalypse Team
 

xXxX

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Yeap you are right. We do see things different. I would expect a melee class to be able to actually be able to...melee any other class with similar kit/lvls.

Ok its decided warrior it is for me ;p

This, Xx69xX how can you say if sins are expected to be able to toe to toe classes then this is not the class for you?Correct me if im wrong but are since not melee also? (Which means a degree of toe 2 toe combat?) This is where alot of servers go wrong, so sins are supposed to go in to hit warriors and get smashed EVERY time?? how does this possible work with 2 melee classes?Obviously no one expects sins to beat wars on every occasion but obviously they will be required to toe 2 toe wars in the majority of occasions.

If sins are able to land x amount of hits they should make you worry otherwise what's the point in having a class that has a lower health pool/ac and also dies in 3 hits? against FF wizzys or TDB/FS wars?
 

Xx69xX

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I still believe no matter how u coded em there are game-changing spells as explained on previous post (tdb does do double dmg, ff gives wizards double the places to hunt, "assasinate" will allow perhaps a **** class to have a chance in pvp, those 2 tao spells will give taos an extra role)

Even though, I understand you are getting all of your information on expirence of all the mir servers you have played throughout the years, I cant seem to understand why you say it has no matter how we code

See this example below, its not real, I made it quickly to show you how easy it is to manipulate spells to whatever damage we want. Saying that certain spells are game changing may be true on other servers, but we have made it so spells are not overly game changing here.

(Remember this is not a true reflection on how slaying or TDB will be, I just lowered TDB and increased slaying to show that any spells can be made to any power, watch in full screen to see the numbers!)

[video=youtube;7jeYPUlLga8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jeYPUlLga8&feature=youtu.be[/video]


---------- Post Merged at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:05 PM ----------

This, Xx69xX how can you say if sins are expected to be able to toe to toe classes then this is not the class for you?Correct me if im wrong but are since not melee also? (Which means a degree of toe 2 toe combat?) This is where alot of servers go wrong, so sins are supposed to go in to hit warriors and get smashed EVERY time?? how does this possible work with 2 melee classes?Obviously no one expects sins to beat wars on every occasion but obviously they will be required to toe 2 toe wars in the majority of occasions.

If sins are able to land x amount of hits they should make you worry otherwise what's the point in having a class that has a lower health pool/ac and also dies in 3 hits? against FF wizzys or TDB/FS wars?

If you are expecting a warrior and assassin of the same level to Toe to Toe, then what's the point of adding the Assassin if its fundamentally the same as a warrior with different spell images? An Assassin has perks a warrior does not, such as solo gameplay. An assassins Green poison makes them able to solo a lot of bosses/sub bosses a warrior cant, that does not make us want to put green poison on warriors, similarly an Assassins ShadowStep and Moonlight make them much more evasive than warriors. You have to take everything into consideration other than just Toe to Toe pvp!

-Apocalypse Team
 
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d1craig

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looks promising and doesnt sound like a stupid stat stupid level server :) will enjoy hopefully when its opened.
 

Nemo

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I have to agree with people about skills. Skills are what make games fun, and ALL modern games/MMOs give you them, and if they dont, they are easy enough to obtain(all the ones i have played give you them at the unlocked levels or use a point system per level for you to unlock from talent trees). Having to grind even to get rare skills is so outdated, and the thinking of 'thats how its always been' is why this game is never going to get to a modern standard of a classic game. Kit being RNG is good enough to keep the grind but keep the enjoyability.

thedeaths post hit the nail on the hear really imo.

Of course you're not going to change your mind and thats fine too. As long as you stick to your guns. Server does look very promising and not slap dash like most. gl
 

kevin87

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if its a lowrate i would be expected to hunt bosses, with a group or guild etc to get rares and put the time in, getting skills on a plate isnt all about that life.

now to the sin vs warr problem.... A lot of people forget the skill range that sins have, they have darkbody, moonlight, now also shadowstep and assassinate, utilize their spells properly and you'll see a big change in a sin vs warr, especially if flashdash is made how it is supposed to be ( that's when yellow poison reduces your Armour ), i really don't see what the problem is.
 
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