Mir 2 Servers

mir2pion

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Me too, i created over 500 new maps for my server.

creating them in shortys map editor was painful.

What you mean by 'created' maps, at what level did you create, like you started with laying down ground tile elements you looked up in libraries (that is starting with opening a blank, white screen expanse in editor) and then placing objects on thus created ground or what. I've seen some of your maps but since I haven't looked fully what's in the default client, can't tell what you did really.

I am curious what's possible, don't want to take a dig at you. From the little encounter I had with map editors (both the 'official' recommended crystal editor and shortys) I just can't see making maps from scratch, maximum I imagine possible is placing pre-made objects on existing maps and adjusting some map tile attributes perhaps.

And yes, maps are integral to mir experience but still I like to see on every server at least the euro base maps and some euro caves from which you can branch out to new maps and caves all you want. For example starting map(s) on NewEden server were good but not as good mir experience as on Bichon and other euro maps though that is probably just plain nostalgia.
 

NightScare

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What you mean by 'created' maps, at what level did you create, like you started with laying down ground tile elements you looked up in libraries (that is starting with opening a blank, white screen expanse in editor) and then placing objects on thus created ground or what. I've seen some of your maps but since I haven't looked fully what's in the default client, can't tell what you did really.

I am curious what's possible, don't want to take a dig at you. From the little encounter I had with map editors (both the 'official' recommended crystal editor and shortys) I just can't see making maps from scratch, maximum I imagine possible is placing pre-made objects on existing maps and adjusting some map tile attributes perhaps.

And yes, maps are integral to mir experience but still I like to see on every server at least the euro base maps and some euro caves from which you can branch out to new maps and caves all you want. For example starting map(s) on NewEden server were good but not as good mir experience as on Bichon and other euro maps though that is probably just plain nostalgia.



yeh, using premade objects that is essentially what mir map making is. I wasnt aware there was anothrr way of doing it.

its still a very time intense process, takes around a day to make a cave and even longer for decent provinces.

i suppose you coupd make your own objects, but that would just to be mad, and if you did that your going into the realms of creating your own game, why stop at map objects.
 

Koriban

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I beg to differ slightly....

A low rate works, but it cant be Euro. The problem with Euro is people know where to go and where to skip. They know kill spots for their class, and the good gear to get. What a low rate needs it 100% custom. People need to go out into the world, find a dungeon, and test and kill.

This x1000

Euro Mir clones (or even just low rate servers in general) are never truly "slow paced" because we've seen literally every cave, every spell, we know what the fastest way to level is and we know which bosses drop the best loot. Hint: has Mir in the name.

It's been done to death. A low rate, but completely custom server with new bosses, AI, mobs, caves, progression system, crafting system etc is what would truly be impressive. It's something I've been working on for years now, but sadly time and life just seem to love getting in the way.

I'd really love to see a server like that tbh.
 

NightScare

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This x1000

Euro Mir clones (or even just low rate servers in general) are never truly "slow paced" because we've seen literally every cave, every spell, we know what the fastest way to level is and we know which bosses drop the best loot. Hint: has Mir in the name.

It's been done to death. A low rate, but completely custom server with new bosses, AI, mobs, caves, progression system, crafting system etc is what would truly be impressive. It's something I've been working on for years now, but sadly time and life just seem to love getting in the way.

I'd really love to see a server like that tbh.


Same, but I think i released mine too early.

One day i may release my files, would give people a good template to work from.
 

mir2pion

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yeh, using premade objects that is essentially what mir map making is. I wasnt aware there was another way of doing it.

its still a very time intense process, takes around a day to make a cave and even longer for decent provinces.

i suppose you could make your own objects, but that would just to be mad, and if you did that your going into the realms of creating your own game, why stop at map objects.

Naively I thought someone might open blank map canvas and look in libraries for ground tiles and place those on canvas so they match on joints, really only way if you wanted to make your own river on an existing map that didn't have one, for example. But as you say nobody is doing that, would take way too long time and likely no point in it, was probably originally done in asian computer graphics sweat shops I imagine where tons of pple were spending countless hours on it.

Also many objects I imagine are initially made as a 'whole thing' and only afterwards are cut into elements but not so that those elements could be reused in making other objects but to be able to give the elements different attributes and also maybe more efficient loading by game engine to display them on our screens. But some building elements are reused in many buildings I suppose.

Anyway I have respect for anybody altering maps, was just curious how deep it goes, probably majority playing on those maps have no idea what's involved.
 

Shane/Banshee

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I think mir 2 is to saturated for any server to do well, chronicals will probably be the last decent uptime/user count server for mir2. people put months or work into there servers only to flop after 2/3weeks in most cases.

personally Crystal files being released was a big mistake for the cumminty. people want to play populated servers, having 10/15 servers to play dont work.
 

daneo1989

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I think mir 2 is to saturated for any server to do well, chronicals will probably be the last decent uptime/user count server for mir2. people put months or work into there servers only to flop after 2/3weeks in most cases.

personally Crystal files being released was a big mistake for the cumminty. people want to play populated servers, having 10/15 servers to play dont work.
Doesn't matter what version of files are used, People will release servers either way. Crystal had just made it much more easily getting one online.
 

Shane/Banshee

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Doesn't matter what version of files are used, People will release servers either way. Crystal had just made it much more easily getting one online.

Yeah that's what I ment not just crystal and crystal alone. But they are easy to set up, compared to the other versions, if ruby etc had the ease like it is now I'm sure it would have been saturated years ago.
 

Piff1

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You see Chronicles being the last big mir 2 server? Damn that's a statement.. Unless Jamie totally converts everybody to Mir3 with Zircon, i don't think that will be the case. Ben still plans of re-making old skool, i feel that itself could hold 150-200 user for a year or so and hold 100+ for much longer if he maybe slow the rates down from the 2.3 verison and tone down the donations for full kits.
 

Shane/Banshee

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You see Chronicles being the last big mir 2 server? Damn that's a statement.. Unless Jamie totally converts everybody to Mir3 with Zircon, i don't think that will be the case. Ben still plans of re-making old skool, i feel that itself could hold 150-200 user for a year or so and hold 100+ for much longer if he maybe slow the rates down from the 2.3 verison and tone down the donations for full kits.


nothing since chronicals has shown any longevity. Players burn through the content to fast as the content is aimed at players that want everything sooner rather than later.if they don't get the items they think they deserve after x kills they move on or complain it's to hard. Game gets changed to suit the complaints game dies. Or new server comes out every 1/2 month which is where most of the fun is. The rush at the start.

jamies Mir 3 will be a grind, I don't expect that it will appeal to all and like you said I probably won't pull everyone together. Players all want something different hence 10 servers with 5-25 users. It's a shame that too many options to play with such a limited community

if ben brings out a new server great but old school was a long time ago now, great back in the day. Just like p69 was back in its day, I don't see it getting the players you say for a year or so solid. Will get the 1month maybe 2 month rush of high users then calm down. 60/80 peak. This is nothing to do with bens skills it's just most Mir players expect something new week in week out. Which is not possible.
 

Piff1

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nothing since chronicals has shown any longevity. Players burn through the content to fast as the content is aimed at players that want everything sooner rather than later.if they don't get the items they think they deserve after x kills they move on or complain it's to hard. Game gets changed to suit the complaints game dies. Or new server comes out every 1/2 month which is where most of the fun is. The rush at the start.

jamies Mir 3 will be a grind, I don't expect that it will appeal to all and like you said I probably won't pull everyone together. Players all want something different hence 10 servers with 5-25 users. It's a shame that too many options to play with such a limited community

if ben brings out a new server great but old school was a long time ago now, great back in the day. Just like p69 was back in its day, I don't see it getting the players you say for a year or so solid. Will get the 1month maybe 2 month rush of high users then calm down. 60/80 peak. This is nothing to do with bens skills it's just most Mir players expect something new week in week out. Which is not possible.

Well, If you and Jamie handled Marble better it would still be peaking 200+ players, Before all them charms got stolen from that guild store and Jamie did nothing the server was holding 150+ Users and that's whilst everybody was waiting for content.. But i can agree besides than Chronicles is the only server that's held it usercount.
 

Koriban

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A server up for a year, is not a good thing nor a thing to be celebrated about. You may as well have just been another 1month server. When a server's up for 3years + and still holding a usercount above 10, then you've done well and created something special enough to last and have meaning to people. There are less servers than I can count on my hand that have done this.

People will bring up a server and fail and hopefully learn from their failures before bringing up another. It's on the player, not the owner, to stop playing people's servers who have done nothing but bring out server after server failure after failure. If it were up to me frankly if you're bringing out your 4th server within 4years, you shouldn't even be here.

Look at how watered down Mir servers have become. I agree, Crystal being released probably did more harm than good. It allowed people who should never be in charge of a server, to make a server. Would they have done it anyway? sure. But it'd have been on 2.3/Ruby(Lol, yeah right)/Heroes files that NOBODY wants to play any more for one simple reason - they don't hold up after having had just a taste of what Crystal/Marble had to offer. Don't misunderstand me we should be ****ing grateful for the coders who put in their free time to give us an amazing set of files, but what have they gotten out of it?

They get insulted by the very people they've enabled. They don't get a penny of the profits they've enabled. What kind of joke is that? I don't blame others for not wanting to share their work or choosing not to go open source after seeing how **** the coders of LOMCN get treated. It's a **** show, and if I ever do get around to creating my server, you can bet your ass any profit it makes is going towards the people who enabled the server to even live in the first place.
 
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Shane/Banshee

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Well, If you and Jamie handled Marble better it would still be peaking 200+ players, Before all them charms got stolen from that guild store and Jamie did nothing the server was holding 150+ Users and that's whilst everybody was waiting for content.. But i can agree besides than Chronicles is the only server that's held it usercount.


Sure jamie could have added content, but when you hate what you created what can you do, the **** he would get day in day out was so off putting, lessons learned hopefully. you had the retard that stole from the guild sold to lkira who then quit as soon as rota came out 10 days later. Again without the lure of another server people might have stayed an content would have come. Same happened to chronicals when jamie released marble. Chronicals user could halfed if not more. It's a poisonous cycle that just keeps getting worse. Hence why I don't even look at Mir 2 anymore.
 

MiloFoxburr

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Look at how watered down Mir servers have become. I agree, Crystal being released probably did more harm than good. It allowed people who should never be in charge of a server, to make a server. Would they have done it anyway? sure. But it'd have been on 2.3/Ruby(Lol, yeah right)/Heroes files that NOBODY wants to play any more for one simple reason - they don't hold up after having had just a taste of what Crystal/Marble had to offer. Don't misunderstand me we should be ****ing grateful for the coders who put in their free time to give us an amazing set of files, but what have they gotten out of it?

They get insulted by the very people they've enabled. They don't get a penny of the profits they've enabled. What kind of joke is that? I don't blame others for not wanting to sharing their work or choosing not to go open source after seeing how **** the coders of LOMCN get treated. It's a **** show, and if I ever do get around to creating my server, you can bet your ass any profit it makes is going towards the people who enabled the server to even live in the first place.

I disagree that Crystal being released did more harm than good. There are a couple of events in the last few years that 'saved' Mir in my opinion. The release of the Crystal files and Chronicles. Chronicles for bringing a ton of players back to Mir (were individual servers even touching 100 users for the 2-3 years before Chronicles launched?) and the Crystal files for dragging Mir into the 21st Century by using a modern development language and ensuring Mir will continue to run for years into the future on PC's. You're absolutely right that no one wants to run Ruby/Heroes/2.3 files and perhaps you're right that people would of continued to make servers with them but the death of Mir servers would of continued at a fairly rapid pace. C# and Chronicles held that off for a while. That's not to belittle the work of Scorp/Bon etc as they all could of very easily been in Chronicles place had they launched at the right time and with the hype Sam and co managed to generate.

I go through phases of thinking that the half assed two bit servers that tend to crop up do more harm for Mir than good but I think in the end any server is good for Mir if it keeps Mir in peoples minds until the next big thing launches. I'd like to think people have gotten smarter about donating to said servers but I don't believe that's the case from reading some of the forum threads for servers that have died in a week or two. It makes me think we should be harsher about allowing advertisements from server owners who create servers solely for the cash but I don't believe we're here to protect players wallets. They're free to spend their money however they like.

As a side note Jamie abandoning Marble when he did is something I'll never understand because that server really was something special. I hope he captures and delivers that spark again in Zircon and sticks with it. Always did prefer playing Mir 3 so I'll be there day one when it goes live. And hopefully in 3 years it'll still be pulling good numbers.
 

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Sure jamie could have added content, but when you hate what you created what can you do, the **** he would get day in day out was so off putting, lessons learned hopefully. you had the retard that stole from the guild sold to lkira who then quit as soon as rota came out 10 days later. Again without the lure of another server people might have stayed an content would have come. Same happened to chronicals when jamie released marble. Chronicals user could halfed if not more. It's a poisonous cycle that just keeps getting worse. Hence why I don't even look at Mir 2 anymore.

Mir 3 is no better though? if anything it has a smaller user-base? The sad truth is all the Mir servers are probably fighting over a total user-base of 500-1000 players, this number never grows, just gradually decreases. When a new server pops up the userbase radiates to that for a while, then spreads thinly again as people lose interest and return back to other servers/games.

Makes me sad to see games like Runescape suddenly re-explode while Mir slowly sinks into the shadowy depths of retro gaming.
 

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Turrican

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In Europe sure, Mir still pulls in massive amounts of users and money in China. I know this is a little old but Mobile Mir was pulling in $100m a month in March 2016. Even a 75% drop between then and now is $25m a month. It's insane money

https://www.techinasia.com/mobile-game-earning-100m-month-china

Yeah i meant the West generally, but it's still surprising to see it doing so well in China after so long. I'd like to think that with the right team of people and officially backed, that Mir could be fairly successful in the West, but the West has slowly moved on from Grindy games, even the mmorpg genre is slowly on the decline. That said if you was to list Mir on steam as a Free to Play mmorpg it would no doubt attract a good amount of new players, but there is no way to do that without the correct licencing and approval of Wemade/Shanda.

While on the subject, has anyone acquired recently into licensing Mir in the West? Any Figures mentioned?
 
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Koriban

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I disagree that Crystal being released did more harm than good. There are a couple of events in the last few years that 'saved' Mir in my opinion.

We may agree to disagree on this point, but I am going to be blunt; can you name a single Crystal server that came out that had an effect anywhere close to Chronicles did?

You'll be very, very hard pressed to do so. Because nothing can compare to what Chronicles did for this community. In fact, Chronicles further proves my point in this regard - it moved AWAY from LOMCN and chose to avoid the negativity that seems to just infest this forum, and it thrived and still is alive and kicking in the face of everything that's happened to it.

Sure, Crystal may have kept us going inbetween great servers. But imagine a GENUINE new player to Mir - many of who'm I encountered on Chronicles, Marble. Can you honestly tell me they'd have stuck around had the first server they played been your run of the mill C# server?

That's the issue i'm getting at. Mir can stave off death for as long as possible and C# has done a ****ing great job at that - but for every Mir player it kept playing it also probably drove off as many fresh new players. This is just my opinion, but it's far more important to bring new players into Mir and get the word spread through their circle of friends that Mir is a game worth playing, than to keep our old but dedicated players "just chugging along".

I won't get into the Marble discussion as it's something I saw as an inevitable failure and learning curve, that happens with everyone. But I agree it still has a future, not in its present state, but perhaps someway down the road in the future for Mir2 veterans who perhaps aren't interested in Mir3.

Thank you for joining the discussion though, you know I appreciate your input, even if in the past we had our run ins :joyous:
 
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