Paragon Infinity [Crystal] Discussion

squall777 · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
3) Are SC/MC always going to be on par with dc figures? A godly giving 10-10 dc is much weaker than a wiz getting the same item with 10-10mc as MC is much more valuable than DC (usually). Have you balanced that out in skill mechanics at all? Obviously I can't say for sure whether this is an issue, as I haven't experienced it on this server, but its going to be majorly unbalanced if nothing has been thought about in balancing elsewhere.

I think the spells are balanced arround that so i wouldnt worry about it too much. What worries/annoys me though is the fact that war/wiz/tao all atm seem to get more or less the same ac/amc.

Seanofsmeg · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Yea loving the server, played 24 hours and completely different mir experience with an MMO feel. Would defo recommend it to anyone and the time from getting started to getting your usual spells is pretty quick

Same feedback as above the lag for a quick second when picking up / handed in a quest.

Piff1 · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Could of just been a 1 off but when i tried to " view market " on tm last night it crashed my client as soon as i clicked it, hasn't happened since.

kickey · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
Server is awesome, best thing I've played in a while in terms of just making me wanna play (still think I enjoyed Marble more, but it was my first major attempt at getting back in properly since forever).

Few things however:

1) Lag when picking up/handing in a quest. What the? Asked 4 other people last night and they were all getting it. One said it was already known but ... just incase people wonder.
2) The ending of the first areas quest chain... crikey that's rough. If a quest chain is going to prevent you from handing in quests from earlier, can you put a warning in? Or give us a way to go back, or a hand in NPC somewhere else or something? I hate missing quests, even if they don't reward anything significant tbh.
3) Are SC/MC always going to be on par with dc figures? A godly giving 10-10 dc is much weaker than a wiz getting the same item with 10-10mc as MC is much more valuable than DC (usually). Have you balanced that out in skill mechanics at all? Obviously I can't say for sure whether this is an issue, as I haven't experienced it on this server, but its going to be majorly unbalanced if nothing has been thought about in balancing elsewhere.

4) Pet peeve: I like getting pets, even if they are not super helpful. But Jesus, do they have to move like they've taken a massive dump in their shorts and don't want any to spill out?

Oh also:

5) Trying to access TM in the starting inn causes CTD each and every time.

Think its a work in progress regarding the balance, i defiantly agree with DC being worth less than MC / SC - currently on a level 44 warrior I tickle the level 46 wizard but he can 2shot me with flame field, hopefully it'll get changed, although would assume it will take a overhaul of the stats on wiz / tao items, server is pretty sweet tho apart from the pvp balance.

Sanity · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

kickey said:
Think its a work in progress regarding the balance, i defiantly agree with DC being worth less than MC / SC - currently on a level 44 warrior I tickle the level 46 wizard but he can 2shot me with flame field, hopefully it'll get changed, although would assume it will take a overhaul of the stats on wiz / tao items, server is pretty sweet tho apart from the pvp balance.

This.

Warrior at the moment are really struggling in PVP, trying to handle FW that ticks over 200 and FD that hits for 300-400+, dread to think what level 3 FF is going to be like. Too much MC on gear, or they haven't scaled them with skills properly.

Now they have buffed FD :eek-new:.

Exwizz · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Sanity said:
This.

Warrior at the moment are really struggling in PVP, trying to handle FW that ticks over 200 and FD that hits for 300-400+, dread to think what level 3 FF is going to be like. Too much MC on gear, or they haven't scaled them with skills properly.

Now they have buffed FD :eek-new:.

i play a wiz and yeah FD is abit OP atm, but your numbers are completely wrong iv never seen any of these numbers yet 200 fw? 300-400 FD? i have all legend kit ++MC and never once hit over 300.

(im level 44 with 143-171mc )

WargodSius · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

I never really understand it, the vast majority of high rates do it. When creating an item, lets just give it 10-10 main stat... :S The officials all had lower sc/mc stats for a reason, but I was hoping they'd taken this in to consideration. The buffs as well tbh, even Jamie did it with Marble and he more or less thinks of everything.

I dunno i guess, I ain't seen far enough to gather for myself so I'll hold judgement.

Sanity · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
I never really understand it, the vast majority of high rates do it. When creating an item, lets just give it 10-10 main stat... :S The officials all had lower sc/mc stats for a reason, but I was hoping they'd taken this in to consideration. The buffs as well tbh, even Jamie did it with Marble and he more or less thinks of everything.

I dunno i guess, I ain't seen far enough to gather for myself so I'll hold judgement.

I asked a gm about this and his response was it's all noob kit, after watching a wiz deal 900+ damage with met. So i assume at 50+ it fix's itself? He also went on to say that stats isn't the reason for the damage, it's the skills damage, making it sound like stats are kinder irrelevant. At this point i just stopped listening as i assume the guy had no idea.

Hotpocket or something was his name.

HotpocketSloth · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Sanity said:
I asked a gm about this and his response was it's all noob kit, after watching a wiz deal 900+ damage with met. So i assume at 50+ it fix's itself? He also went on to say that stats isn't the reason for the damage, it's the skills damage, making it sound like stats are kinder irrelevant. At this point i just stopped listening as i assume the guy had no idea.

Hotpocket or something was his name.

My exact words were, Stats are not the issue Spell damage is the issue. which can be changed without going through the item database and redoing every single item ingame which would be well over 600 items.

If you look at my posts on Paragon forums you would also note that im taking this seriously and constantly testing / rebalancing.

WargodSius · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

HotpocketSloth said:
My exact words were, Stats are not the issue Spell damage is the issue. which can be changed without going through the item database and redoing every single item ingame which would be well over 600 items.

If you look at my posts on Paragon forums you would also note that im taking this seriously and constantly testing / rebalancing.

Thank you for confirming, and please note I did reserve judgement etc, but it was a very valid concern.

Obviously making 600+ items is pretty intense, which is why I assumed the stats were mostly carbon copies with main stats switched. But it's incredibly common on high servers, where balance is disrupted because of the lack of recognition of the issues this will cause.

It does seem like a massive oversight to me though, but like I said I was hoping you guys had done some tweaking with spell mechanics to compensate for the 'lack of thought/effort' put in to item stats (I say that purely to keep it short, not as an insult I assure you - i understand 600 items would be a nightmare etc).

Bon · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
Thank you for confirming, and please note I did reserve judgement etc, but it was a very valid concern.

Obviously making 600+ items is pretty intense, which is why I assumed the stats were mostly carbon copies with main stats switched. But it's incredibly common on high servers, where balance is disrupted because of the lack of recognition of the issues this will cause.

It does seem like a massive oversight to me though, but like I said I was hoping you guys had done some tweaking with spell mechanics to compensate for the 'lack of thought/effort' put in to item stats (I say that purely to keep it short, not as an insult I assure you - i understand 600 items would be a nightmare etc).

its just numbers, it makes no difference

We could make DC double that of MC/SC on every item.. then in the spell damage calulcations make all warrior spells do 50% of the damage compared to wiz/tao.

The outcome would be that they all do the same damage.

For example

FlameField does 100% of your MC. The ring has mc10-10. The spell will hit for 10 damage (assuming AMC is 0-0)
FlamingSword does 50% of your DC. The ring has dc20-20. the spell will hit for 10 damage..

So what Hot is saying, is although you think DC is "weaker" and it should be 20% more than mc/sc... it doesnt. All warrior spells will be 20% stronger than wiz/tao spells.

I'm not saying that is the case.. but explaining what Hot means by we don't have to re-do the item db, we just adjust the spells

Why euro made DC higher than MC/SC i really don't know, there is no real reason or advantage to it in all honesty...

just dont get stuck in that "euro did this so everything else is wrong" mind set. This is a completely different and custom server

Shane/Banshee · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Bon said:
its just numbers, it makes no difference

We could make DC double that of MC/SC on every item.. then in the spell damage calulcations make all warrior spells do 50% of the damage compared to wiz/tao.

The outcome would be that they all do the same damage.

For example

FlameField does 100% of your MC. The ring has mc10-10. The spell will hit for 10 damage (assuming AMC is 0-0)
FlamingSword does 50% of your DC. The ring has dc20-20. the spell will hit for 10 damage..

So what Hot is saying, is although you think DC is "weaker" and it should be 20% more than mc/sc... it doesnt. All warrior spells will be 20% stronger than wiz/tao spells.

I'm not saying that is the case.. but explaining what Hot means by we don't have to re-do the item db, we just adjust the spells

Why euro made DC higher than MC/SC i really don't know, there is no real reason or advantage to it in all honesty...

just dont get stuck in that "euro did this so everything else is wrong" mind set. This is a completely different and custom server

only reason why I could think that dc was weaker and required higher stats could have been down to agil/acc effect. Magic resistance wasn't noticeable, but who knows. So long ago now.

WargodSius · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Bon said:
its just numbers, it makes no difference

We could make DC double that of MC/SC on every item.. then in the spell damage calulcations make all warrior spells do 50% of the damage compared to wiz/tao.

The outcome would be that they all do the same damage.

For example

FlameField does 100% of your MC. The ring has mc10-10. The spell will hit for 10 damage (assuming AMC is 0-0)
FlamingSword does 50% of your DC. The ring has dc20-20. the spell will hit for 10 damage..

So what Hot is saying, is although you think DC is "weaker" and it should be 20% more than mc/sc... it doesnt. All warrior spells will be 20% stronger than wiz/tao spells.

I'm not saying that is the case.. but explaining what Hot means by we don't have to re-do the item db, we just adjust the spells

Why euro made DC higher than MC/SC i really don't know, there is no real reason or advantage to it in all honesty...

just dont get stuck in that "euro did this so everything else is wrong" mind set. This is a completely different and custom server

I wasn't get stuck on anything, or even making negative assumptions. I was just asking for clarification really. The way you've described it is how I assumed you'd have done it. Christ knows it's easier than trying to figure out a 'ratio' for item stat distribution but it was a concern until confirmed.

Incidentally by the way, in relation to the lag on picking up quests. Seems fine on my work machine, which is also W10, but HDD with (I believe) the same everything else. Very strange.

Bon · Oct 16, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
I wasn't get stuck on anything, or even making negative assumptions. I was just asking for clarification really. The way you've described it is how I assumed you'd have done it. Christ knows it's easier than trying to figure out a 'ratio' for item stat distribution but it was a concern until confirmed.

Incidentally by the way, in relation to the lag on picking up quests. Seems fine on my work machine, which is also W10, but HDD with (I believe) the same everything else. Very strange.

Yes it makes items a lot easier if they are the same, having different ratios is weird and imbalances the game.
We've made warrior weapons a bit higher than tao/wiz.. so wars will alwayus have more DC
plus base dc they get more often

regarding the quest lag.. we're not sure.. some get it some dont (I get it) we're still trying to figure it out sorry

Koriban · Oct 17, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Something people may want to take into consideration: Everyone more or less looks the same atm around the 30-44 mark. Armours/weps from the outside is what i'm getting at.

However, someone could look the same as you but in reality have far far better accessories (godly/mythical) which gives them quite a huge edge. It's impossible to immediately judge someones damage without first looking at someones kit. Which I like, but it could be a reason why people complain so much about peoples damage. They think they're going into an even fight when the reality is they're out gunned.

Piff1 · Oct 17, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

koriban said:
Something people may want to take into consideration: Everyone more or less looks the same atm around the 30-44 mark. Armours/weps from the outside is what i'm getting at.

However, someone could look the same as you but in reality have far far better accessories (godly/mythical) which gives them quite a huge edge. It's impossible to immediately judge someones damage without first looking at someones kit. Which I like, but it could be a reason why people complain so much about peoples damage. They think they're going into an even fight when the reality is they're out gunned.

I been checking every ****er kit haha, luckly i got 3 godly items atm so my FD is wrecking most people.

SmavidDavid · Oct 17, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Piff1 said:
I been checking every ****er kit haha, luckly i got 3 godly items atm so my FD is wrecking most people.

This... Eventually Godly, Legendary and Mythical kit will be there on most characters, and we'll see half the nerfs being called in at the moment being revoked to suit people being in full kits...

Not to mention people being in legendary set kits....

WargodSius · Oct 19, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Transferring my answer from another thread here to piff1, as it was derailing that thread.

Originally made a joke with Hany about getting back online to tele me to 'deadend' quests.

Piff1 said:
How'd you manage that lol? I've done every quest up to Yimoogi 50+ quest even the re-doable's and i never got stuck anywhere.

If you @home during the bone quest stuff, it takes you to serpents with no way of getting back (as far as I know) - bear in mind at this point you've never ever been to Serpents...

So on 1 char I've got the few starter quests, where I was tele'd to bone cave bit without handing them in (also the lvl 20 instance quest I can't seem to get back to), and on the other I've got the final quest in the bone cave bit, where you kill the two guards, then OKS (iirc) then go speak to evlimir. I skipped that whole bit basically by hitting @home.

Far · Oct 19, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

WargodSius said:
Transferring my answer from another thread here to piff1, as it was derailing that thread.

Originally made a joke with Hany about getting back online to tele me to 'deadend' quests.

If you @home during the bone quest stuff, it takes you to serpents with no way of getting back (as far as I know) - bear in mind at this point you've never ever been to Serpents...

So on 1 char I've got the few starter quests, where I was tele'd to bone cave bit without handing them in (also the lvl 20 instance quest I can't seem to get back to), and on the other I've got the final quest in the bone cave bit, where you kill the two guards, then OKS (iirc) then go speak to evlimir. I skipped that whole bit basically by hitting @home.

Pretty sure you can get back to those caves using the correct NPC (outside the City Hall). The only place you can't get back to is the noob area (where you were locked inside the city walls which was on a separate instance).

Just cancel the lower quests and you'll never see them again. I did always mean to add a "complete quest without reward" button for these cases.

WargodSius · Oct 19, 2017

Re: Paragon Infinity Mir

Far said:
Pretty sure you can get back to those caves using the correct NPC (outside the City Hall). The only place you can't get back to is the noob area (where you were locked inside the city walls which was on a separate instance).

Just cancel the lower quests and you'll never see them again. I did always mean to add a "complete quest without reward" button for these cases.

Yeah the teleportation ring doesn't take you back to bone cave bit afaik. EvilMir, Yimoogi, that dudes hut (with the snakes) and er.... westermarch i think.

It's not an issue, other than I dislike having to abandon quests. The rewards aint gonna break the bank, but I do worry I've missed something that chains off.

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