Some WIP

WargodSius

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First of, awesome work. Few and far between are map makers, so this is awesome stuff.

Second, and off topic to a certain degree, I see you said you've had a fair amount of offers. I wonder how much they were considering paying? How long did the maps take to make? For a map this large, it must have been a while.

So say as a ballpark we say 5 hours solid graft (after removing time spent familiarising yourself with the tools to make them, and just counting actual 'pen to paper' stuff). We charge £35 p/h for web design work, including graphics stuff here, but I've seen communities designing logo's for companies for a fiver, so lets hit a fair price in between and call it £20. Are people willing to pay £100 per map? Are you willing to take £100 per map?

To me it seems you are right, at that rate it wouldn't really motivate me to make the maps and is the map really worth £100? Although even then 5 hours seems low. Obviously guessing figures, but its interesting none the less
 

Chalace

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I have no idea how long it takes to be fair, but for something this size 5 hours wouldn't even come close. Of course it depends on quality. (I could build a WeMade quality map in a day no problem, but they are exceptionally poor as far as detail goes, almost none-existent)

Also depends a lot on the environment. a 300x300 cave +2 small rooms took me 2 long evenings. compared the the 2-3 weeks I've worked on these 2 open maps. Indoor maps are far easier due to limited lighting and already textured 'borders'

-Example, just playing around re-doing the plants on 1 screen size last night i spent 2 hours~. Placing, replacing, checking in-game etc, until i got it feeling right. (Solid working without interruptions would obviously be less) Same process applies to everything really.
That is then replicated across the map at a faster pace. (replicating the shade/flowers in the screenshot above will take at a guess 3~ hours alone for the 300x300 town map)
-I spent a good few hours over a Sunday just doing the back limits on 1 map, largely cell by cell, on a 400x400 map takes time.

Of course i never took this as a job, i take my time, and as stated elsewhere I'm probably a little too OCD about placements (constantly re-arranging things by 1 space to look right until I'm happy with it)

Even treating it as a job with focused progression, i would be surprised if anyone was actually willing to pay the real price for time invested. A lot of the pieces, while they are simple, still take a lot of time to implement.
 

chaosdeath

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not to put a damper on things in anway shape or form, but why on earth would any one pay for maps when you can get them for free???
 

SmavidDavid

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Second, and off topic to a certain degree, I see you said you've had a fair amount of offers. I wonder how much they were considering paying? How long did the maps take to make? For a map this large, it must have been a while.

I usually make maps for GG, and let GM owner spec it, no real cost to either party.

However, I've been offered £10-20 per dungeon. Baring in mind, I used to be able to knock a 7 flr dungeon out in a couple of hours, once you get in "the mode" I become like a robot and could place without really looking back at map and would place by eye to link 2 walls up etc.

Not made any in ages.

not to put a damper on things in anway shape or form, but why on earth would any one pay for maps when you can get them for free???

Looks sick blad.



Maps look v-nice Chal, flower placements looked good, I spent too long worrying bout details, nd I never ever looked at them ingame until released on a server. At least you can view Ingame, the first time I viewed Eden-Elites HZ map ingame was on eden, its been made for over 6 years though!

Keep up good work.
 

Chalace

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not to put a damper on things in anway shape or form, but why on earth would any one pay for maps when you can get them for free???

The same reason people pay for anything. just look at the asset store markets etc. You also cant get something that is yet to exist i.e layouts.

Tho i think this is getting a bit off-topic. the purpose of this post was to show what I'm enjoying working on and maybe inspire others to give it a go.
 

WargodSius

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I'd love to give it a go, just finding the software a bit daunting to even dive in to. I've downloaded both you suggest, but just can;t bring myself to get started lol.
 

mir2pion

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I'd say the way the thread went is not off topic at all. Also am sure this will inspire some others, however it looks like there is a very steep learning curve and that will likely beat the inspiration out of most of those inspired. Perhaps it would help if somebody like you knocked together a guide to map making with explanation of what exactly many terms mean (back and other limits, front, middle, back etc placing) with concrete examples, visual or in words but plain words. Forget about those who made those editing programs or tech pple generally to explain much anything, they are the worst to explain anything really, not being in touch with normal folks who might be veteran mir players but have only foggy understanding of what makes the game click on the design level.

Having (I think) three map editors (official C#, iJams & Shorty's) doesn't help and while I understand why such non-concentrated program development happens, I still see it as unfortunate.

As for time demands to make a map, that's why mir was developed out in Asia and why our Western game developers farm out most of the labor intensive designs out to Asia's sweat shops (ditto for animated movies like Simpsons etc). But it all depends on one's position, someone on welfare can find map designing for sale worthwhile or it helps if he hails from relatively low income country like Romania or else it helps if he gets very skilled @map making or all those factors.
 

Chalace

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The learning curve comes down to how far you want to push the detail, and practice like any process. Compare my screenshot above to the default NAMMON maps.

The actual process of getting the basics down is simply selecting what you want from the appropriate list then point and click.
Xiyue's C# editor is what i would use.

If people really want a guide on how it works, the (5) stages i use from start to finish, i can do that. Tho it wont be for a few days.

Tho really, it is all fairly self-explanatory. If you can use MS Paint you can use this.
 
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WargodSius

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I'd say the way the thread went is not off topic at all. Also am sure this will inspire some others, however it looks like there is a very steep learning curve and that will likely beat the inspiration out of most of those inspired. Perhaps it would help if somebody like you knocked together a guide to map making with explanation of what exactly many terms mean (back and other limits, front, middle, back etc placing) with concrete examples, visual or in words but plain words. Forget about those who made those editing programs or tech pple generally to explain much anything, they are the worst to explain anything really, not being in touch with normal folks who might be veteran mir players but have only foggy understanding of what makes the game click on the design level.

Having (I think) three map editors (official C#, iJams & Shorty's) doesn't help and while I understand why such non-concentrated program development happens, I still see it as unfortunate.

As for time demands to make a map, that's why mir was developed out in Asia and why our Western game developers farm out most of the labor intensive designs out to Asia's sweat shops (ditto for animated movies like Simpsons etc). But it all depends on one's position, someone on welfare can find map designing for sale worthwhile or it helps if he hails from relatively low income country like Romania or else it helps if he gets very skilled @map making or all those factors.

Every post of yours reads like so "Ok, yes, ok, yes, i agree, yeah i kinda agree, sensible thought so far.... lets see the last paragraph.... oh for ****s sake"
 

chaosdeath

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The map editors are pretty straight forward to use to be honest , it just comes down to what you want to see on the map and then deciding what’s what ... yea there are a few things that’s do not make much sense like front animations back image doors ect as when highlighting certain ones nothing seems to happen map wise lol.

Personally I think the most annoying part is not being able to set the size of map you want to work on ( creating a new map ) and certain objects have large areas that they cover so the minute you place it to close to an edge you get an error message lol.... like trying to add a cliff that only a snippet of the corner hits the outer edge of the map and BANG error so you have to move it in an extra square like.... if you have no idea what I mean then sorry lol .... but some people will lol


Click point shoot lol
 

Chalace

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You set the map size when you create a new one.
If you are hitting the edge then that is just bad planning, but there are multiple ways to fix it without placing a wall etc. out of line.
 

mir2pion

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Every post of yours reads like so "Ok, yes, ok, yes, i agree, yeah i kinda agree, sensible thought so far.... lets see the last paragraph.... oh for ****s sake"

I've seen posts of yours quite uninspiring/irritating too, its just that as a rule I resist slighting comments and post only if I have something to say regarding thread discussion (you don't see me initiating or joining in on some attacking and or slighting fest). I can only wish you respected me the same way. Mind you this time I am not sure I get what your problem is with this particular post. Obviously it is a long term simmering dislike of my posting style that some others here share with you. Yep, I admit I am not one of those patting on shoulders, smearing honey about pple's mouths, I don't believe in modern education that shuns true evaluation and instead strictly praises and is positive no matter how bad the pupils are.

Irony is you are defending OP from my not enough positive post, whom others have also repeatedly put down for the same thing lately, for not being positive enough and making long posts - long posts that are not positive enough seem to trigger such response, those who just post something short and without doubt 100% negative, like 'what a crap' without explaining any closer why it is a crap, escape notice from you local 'upbeat forum spirit' guardians.

You set the map size when you create a new one.
If you are hitting the edge then that is just bad planning, but there are multiple ways to fix it without placing a wall etc. out of line.

That's precisely why I said a guide would come handy. You already have one customer for it in chaosdeath :encouragement: It would include such insights as this one, also why not make any new map max size (if there is such limitation in the editor in the first place) to begin with to help avoid such issue to even come up... Such 'big picture' advice is invaluable since even some potentially talented folks might throw the towel in ring if they run into such basic problems right at the start of trying their hand at map making.
 
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LightBringer

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I really want to start it, my main issue is getting all the objects together and sorted!
 

Far

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Looks really good. Hope to see more maps from you. Haven't seen any decent maps made in years.
 

Chalace

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Looks really good. Hope to see more maps from you. Haven't seen any decent maps made in years.

Having a lot of fun with it so far.
Have a few dungeon maps made already, however they just don't have the same feel as outdoor maps in general.

It was a bit frustrating to start. however, once you pass the realization that you can't make everything perfect, not being able to overlap objects etc, it comes together nicely.
 

Far

tsniffer
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Having a lot of fun with it so far.
Have a few dungeon maps made already, however they just don't have the same feel as outdoor maps in general.

It was a bit frustrating to start. however, once you pass the realization that you can't make everything perfect, not being able to overlap objects etc, it comes together nicely.

Does Akaras object set also include Mir3 images? Always wanted to make mir3 maps but having to create all the buildings/cliffs from scratch is just too much work
 

Chalace

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Load of random screenshots from all over the first map.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5bxxW9uGXFlvStFz1

---------- Post Merged at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:06 PM ----------

Does Akaras object set also include Mir3 images? Always wanted to make mir3 maps but having to create all the buildings/cliffs from scratch is just too much work

I believe not, tho I'm not 100% sure whats Mir2 and 3. (Going by the initial post i think just Mir2 were made)
There are a few libs that contain hundreds/thousands of objects that i have found unmade.

My next temple will be objects that are unmade at present (never seen them before personally), so you can see in a day or 2.