Assassins on Servers

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LightBringer

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So I am adding Assassins to my server, I have a fair amount of knowledge the path I want to take them but I was wondering if people could give me their opinions on what people have done right, and wrong when adding assassins to their servers.

i have seen so many comments on servers saying Assassins ruined it or were pointless, and I don't want to fall down the same traps as they had done.

I know it's all opinion based but I would like to hear what people have to say about the class!

Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Chalace

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I never played one on official, but I gather they were supposed to be more damage than warriors but also more squishy.

The most common complaints seem to be as you suggest, either pointless class being a 2nd warrior with little differentiation.
Or op crazy **** running around invisible 1 shotting everyone on CD.

In reality, you need to decide how you want the class to work, I don't think the default files amount to 'fun yet also balanced'. This is what people fail on. It is ultimately unique to your server.

Assuming you have one, is the end-game group based? Or more 'solo everything'? In which case, how do you differentiate 2 melee DC classes from each other if they are expected to solo everything? You get the idea...

The experience I've had with them was always quite fun, but I've yet to see them properly balanced.
 
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TheDayIDie

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Yeah agree above.

You need to balance it well. I think my vision of assassin has always been from my experience from mir 3.

High agility, accuracy, speed and some heavy hitting combo spells.

It makes it harder to balance vs wizards and warriors. Need to boost/ nerf their accuracy accordingly.

At a higher level on mir3 you got 'evasion' and 'raging wind' buffs with help block magic spells so eventually they get some counter/defense to magic but early game it's about dodging the magic. Imobilizing and jumping to range targets with grip/ dance of swallows and then dealing fast and high single target damage.
 

LightBringer

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Assuming you have one, is the end-game group based? Or more 'solo everything'? In which case, how do you differentiate 2 melee DC classes from each other if they are expected to solo everything? You get the idea...

The experience I've had with them was always quite fun, but I've yet to see them properly balanced.

Definitely going towards group based, there will be some solo aspects but the 'end game' will be group based..

I feel that one issue with Assassins on Mir2 is they have no real identity...

I get I need to balance the assassin, but I also feel the problem is, Warriors get everything in a package, tankyness and damage, so Assassins become redundant even with higher DC as they have lower hp pools and AC/MAC.

I like Mir3's assassins, but Agility even on there seems to be pointless (on Zircon anyway) - I guess it's trying to get the Agi balance right for PvP and PvE.

I need to look at later game spells for Assassins as well, as it all seems very lack luster on Mir2.
 

TheDayIDie

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A thing that I thought always destroyed mir2 was spammable TDB. Remove it and replace with more burst spells like flaming sword and this should be fixed.

Also liked the idea of a utility spell like ice sword. Maybe a good replacement but tdb is such an iconic mir 2 war spell.
 

Chalace

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It's not just a case of balancing Assassins, is what i was getting at.
You actually need to have a purpose for them in the first place. Usually it just ends up being 'I can do everything on a warrior easier'

Mainly due to what you pointed out. Warriors have already been given all the tools to do everything. PvE wise this isn't a huge deal, You can re-code, add/remove skills as you please.

--

It will be exceptionally hard to balance in PvP due to the nature of how things usually work. You can't just give them higher damage.
~ High burst damage as a necessity. < This goes for all classes and is the primary reason why PvP is so **** on Mir.

Personally i think it is impossible to balance without re-working other key systems. Such as the pot system. Right now damage must outweigh the ability to regen through potions, hence the high burst damage. The only real way to resolve this is to limit potion use and extend the window for different abilities and 'skill' to actually matter.

---------- Post Merged at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:47 AM ----------

Edit: Slightly off topic but still relevant to my response.

The evolution of Mir in this context is something I never could wrap my head around. It just seems entirely counterproductive and made any real sense of PvP completely impossible. If anyone has any insight into what the hell they are thinking, do share.

E.g. If we look at Mir3 servers (the ones I've tried atleast) it's simply a case of auto-potting instant potions on CD. As stats/mob damage increase so does the necessity for the value of instant HP being recovered. It inevitably reaches a point where things must hit so hard, so fast that skipping a single second outside the pot CD would result in death. It is the equivelant of having 2 hp and taking 1 hp per hit, you can never balance that in a 'fun' way.

To me, this design is fundamentally flawed in so many ways...
 

jaffar91

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I played a server once where my client couldn't keep up with a sin because they hadn't capped attach speed. On my screen the sin was still hitting one mob when in act that mob was already dead and he was killing the other one... so yeh watch out for the attack speed xD
 

WelshSteel

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Would like to see Sins be the masters of poison and then as a result nerf their monster single target dps that makes them harder to balance/solo orientated. Make Tao more interesting as a result of losing poison, many things I could think up.

Obviously don't make Sins be able to easily stealth to KR's and make bosses un-soloable by them, main issue on Chronicles I think.
 
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DrowninG

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The issue with Crystal Files is the attack speed imo, as it appears to be capped quite early which is where i've always thought the assassin would start to flourish.

But in terms of vision, assassins are I believe meant to be a melee glass cannon, kind of a melee wizard but they different skill sets such as poisons and evasions skills which make them different to a warrior, more cunning and agile - sort of a "death by a thousand cuts" kind of class instead of the warrior which is more of a "hulk smash" kind of class.

I guess it also depends on if you're wanting to do dungeons with the trifecta of healer / damage dealer / tank, then you need to think of how assassins fit in in terms of balance (would an assassin be a useful addition as a damage dealer, or would it hinder the group play).
 

chaosdeath

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Speaking from experience as I played a sin on USA lvl 118 , they are both good and bad. I use to play with my partner who was a Tao , and the best place for xp ( due to buff was premium dungeon ) At 118 a Tao could solo PD for the full hour piss easy. At 118 as a sin I struggled I was lucky if I made the full hour. Basically they are a glass cannon , deadly when they get up close but usless from a distance. And defo not a round them up and smash the **** out of them kinda class. I had to even take it slow in zt as mass lures were deadly ( pot sucking ) yet when your able to time your skills spot on you were lethal. Certain skill were a waste of time and totally pointless. Swift feet was one of them. The only time that skill was of any use was if the cave had no ranged mobs. Crescent slash pointless as it did nothing really apart from look good, and if you were in a position to use it ( surrounded ) you were more than likely in ****. Dark body was a semi good skill. Good for drawing attention away from you ! Poison sword helped a ton , moonlight never seen a need to use it as most mobs seen through it.

Basically you had to play tactically with a sin , they not meant for head to head combat like a warrior and are no good at the back as a support class. They are more of a sneak stay in the shadow kill quietly and fast kind of class ... a thinking tactica class. ... Yet for some reason people seem to want sins up front with warriors no idea why. Realistic speaking a sin is mix of the other classes ... poison ( Tao skill ) dark body ( wizard clone ) can’t think of the stun skill name ( TDB warriors ). But it’s their weaknesses that have been transferred into the sin. That’s what I thought playing a sin. If USA ever came back I would 100% choose sin even with the downfalls . That’s why majority of sins on USA had Tao heroes or wizards lol. To make up for the short falls. Defo deadly when used and balanced correctly.

Yes I have played a warrior lvl 36 , wizard lvl 33 on euro ... USA lvl 118 Taoist ... my partners StormHealer , just in case some one decides to say but have you played x class lol.
 
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Shane/Banshee

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Balance is subjective to so many factors.

Kit
Levels
Spells
Maps
Ping
Other classes.

Many others I'm sure

Agility Vs acc breaks many servers. Official mir 2 sins had like 10 acc maybe a bit more. Rest was from kit and gems. Once they got 15 from kit they were unstoppable.