EuroReborn (Custom Crystal)

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Sanjian

Just a Mir2 Fan
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Apr 28, 2011
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Ok here's my input on your subscription model idea/server running costs issue.

Firstly, without being rude, I think it's a bit cheeky to say you don't care if anyone wants to play your server or not as you're doing it for your own enjoyment, yet meanwhile expecting those people to fund the dedi.

Secondly I don't see how this subscription model is going to work long term. If you're charging £3 p/m and need to make £60, you're relying on at least 20 people subbing each month. This only secures you 1 month of your dedi host each time and I don't see that you can argue that this model offers players more security or peace of mind that the server won't disappear after a few months on the basis that if, say, after 3 months, half of your subscribers decide it's not for them and stop subbing, you're immediately in the lurch and the server is at risk with no backup funds in the kitty. And let's be real are you going to get more than 20 people subbing at any one time? I'd be shocked tbqh.

IMO you are better off going down the cosmetic gameshop route and putting the money aside in a separate PP account. This way you can make an influx of cash sales initially on launch when your server will undoubtedly be at its peak u/c wise and set the additional earnings aside for future dedi payments. Not only this but if, down the line, your u/c does drop, those left playing can make the conscious decision to make more gameshop purchases in order to keep it afloat. Plus nothing is stopping you from creating an optional subscription and/or accepting donations. At the end of the day people love to throw their money at Mir. Sure, most of them want something in return but not all.

There is an abundance of things you peddle in a gameshop that has no real game-changing effects or unfair advantages
  • Inventory space
  • Storage space
  • Mount skins
  • Pickup pets
  • Glamours (transmog, weapon skins, armour skins)
  • Titles
  • Glows (humeffects)
  • Hairstyles
  • Gender change
This is a proven cash generating model on tons of games. People want their characters to be unique. Apocalypse had everyone start out with the same hairstyle and charged £3 to change it. 20 people changing their hairstyle is one month DONE.

You can do the same with mounts. There's nothing game breaking about having more inventory or storage space (if you cap sunpots) but people want it. Your server is low rate so you surely have more weapon skins than you will ever need, so sell them as glamours. People want a cool title above their name...so make a list and SELL THEM

thank you for the thorough input.

firstly if i came across rude then i apologize, it was not my intention and was probably tired (lame excuse i know), i just dont want people thinking im only in it for the monies.

i have a hairdresser script thats free.... the though of charging people to change their hair seems ridiculous. but im a player not a server owner so i dont quite have a good business model view when approaching the server from that angle.

i cannot actually get the SUB system working so thats that idea gone, ill remove/edit the post to reflect it.

i will populate the GS with things like youve mentioned (the gs is actually empty, it will probably be the last thing i do)
 

zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
3,167
1
1,017
340
Ok here's my input on your subscription model idea/server running costs issue.

Firstly, without being rude, I think it's a bit cheeky to say you don't care if anyone wants to play your server or not as you're doing it for your own enjoyment, yet meanwhile expecting those people to fund the dedi.

Secondly I don't see how this subscription model is going to work long term. If you're charging £3 p/m and need to make £60, you're relying on at least 20 people subbing each month. This only secures you 1 month of your dedi host each time and I don't see that you can argue that this model offers players more security or peace of mind that the server won't disappear after a few months on the basis that if, say, after 3 months, half of your subscribers decide it's not for them and stop subbing, you're immediately in the lurch and the server is at risk with no backup funds in the kitty. And let's be real are you going to get more than 20 people subbing at any one time? I'd be shocked tbqh.

IMO you are better off going down the cosmetic gameshop route and putting the money aside in a separate PP account. This way you can make an influx of cash sales initially on launch when your server will undoubtedly be at its peak u/c wise and set the additional earnings aside for future dedi payments. Not only this but if, down the line, your u/c does drop, those left playing can make the conscious decision to make more gameshop purchases in order to keep it afloat. Plus nothing is stopping you from creating an optional subscription and/or accepting donations. At the end of the day people love to throw their money at Mir. Sure, most of them want something in return but not all.

There is an abundance of things you peddle in a gameshop that has no real game-changing effects or unfair advantages
  • Inventory space
  • Storage space
  • Mount skins
  • Pickup pets
  • Glamours (transmog, weapon skins, armour skins)
  • Titles
  • Glows (humeffects)
  • Hairstyles
  • Gender change
This is a proven cash generating model on tons of games. People want their characters to be unique. Apocalypse had everyone start out with the same hairstyle and charged £3 to change it. 20 people changing their hairstyle is one month DONE.

You can do the same with mounts. There's nothing game breaking about having more inventory or storage space (if you cap sunpots) but people want it. Your server is low rate so you surely have more weapon skins than you will ever need, so sell them as glamours. People want a cool title above their name...so make a list and SELL THEM

Honestly if you want help or input on any ideas hit me up.

Let's not forget the fact that this year (2020) might be one of the years with lots of Mir2 Servers launching.
Sanjian's server might have that hype but in the end its all bout the numbers ... the ones with $ bags will pick the server whos on top of the list.
 

Tai

HEAD CAPTAIN
Staff member
Administrator
May 11, 2003
14,280
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i have a hairdresser script thats free.... the though of charging people to change their hair seems ridiculous. but im a player not a server owner so i dont quite have a good business model view when approaching the server from that angle.

It's better than selling EXP pots though right? ;)

Let's not forget the fact that this year (2020) might be one of the years with lots of Mir2 Servers launching.
Sanjian's server might have that hype but in the end its all bout the numbers ... the ones with $ bags will pick the server whos on top of the list.

I agree, but Sanj said he's not bothered about a high u/c so I see this as his best option.
 
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zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
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I agree, but Sanj said he's not bothered about a high u/c so I see this as his best option.

In the end its about marketing.
I think Sanjs server will stand out from all these new servers because he has big enough ballz to try new things.

But yeah...

@Sanjian, Tai's suggestion its pretty good, you already implemented nice Companions, throw there some extra space items for the companion Bag.
You also got nice Fishing system from LOFH, add some custom/premium fishing rods in gameshop too.

All the best, kind regards.
 

mir2pion

TL;DR
Veteran
Feb 21, 2013
3,093
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How about game being free for, say couple hours within every 24hour period (counted midnight to midnight) and if you wanted to have more game time in that 24h period, you would need to be on subscription? I feel couple hours might be just OK to play reasonably that way, maybe some would say 3hours? It would need to be able to satisfy casuals, so they would bother playing that way. If it was made too short, I doubt it would attract or be option for anybody.

It would allow casuals to play free and power players would need to pay sub if they wanted to put in long daily sessions.

Since it would roll over at midnight, casual player might have up to 4h continuous play time if he started at 10pm and finished at 2am, with the caveat that he wouldn't play next day... could be utilized on weekend night for example as an option for those, who couldn't play anyway on Sunday, for example.

The two hour game time would be counted either only when logged in, or when outside of the main SZ? Meaning you could log and stay in SZ whole day without subscription, not being able to leave it (that might be hard to implement though)? That's another idea I just had.
 
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Sanjian

Just a Mir2 Fan
VIP
Apr 28, 2011
3,957
5
2,074
350
East Sussex
How about game being free for, say couple hours within every 24hour period (counted midnight to midnight) and if you wanted to have more game time in that 24h period, you would need to be on subscription? I feel couple hours might be just OK to play reasonably that way, maybe some would say 3hours? It would need to be able to satisfy casuals, so they would bother playing that way. If it was made too short, I doubt it would attract or be option for anybody.

It would allow casuals to play free and power players would need to pay sub if they wanted to put in long daily sessions.

Since it would roll over at midnight, casual player might have up to 4h continuous play time if he started at 10pm and finished at 2am, with the caveat that he wouldn't play next day... could be utilized on weekend night for example as an option for those, who couldn't play anyway on Sunday, for example.

The two hour game time would be counted either only when logged in, or when outside of the main SZ? Meaning you could log and stay in SZ whole day without subscription, not being able to leave it (that might be hard to implement though)? That's another idea I just had.
its an interesting concept.

i have been thinking about, and someone suggested the Zircon 7 day buff which is purchased from the GS, buff lasts for 7 days, paused in SZ. i may do something similar, you can currently craft EXP pots from the alchemy profession, the items needed drop from boss's/subs.

with the addition of the companion buffs, all companions have different buffs (stats like dc/mc/sc) if i made companions a GS purchase, to me thats abit like p2w...

but there is also a huntgold system so players actualy earn gamegold/huntgold just by playing so over time nothing in the GS is iompossible to buy, itsd just quicker to get if you add gg to your account.
 

Skyline

LOMCN Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 26, 2003
7,144
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Sheffield
Not sure if I have read this somewhere (Likely here?) or just made it up in my head.

But a concept I like the idea of, to try and prevent your usual suspects geeking the server 24 hours a day and racing way ahead in the levels department.

You only get a certain amount of time in a day on "Full EXP" - Lets say 3 hours.
After the 3 hours are up, your EXP gained decreases from 100% to 50% for example.

This gives the "casuals" more chance of keeping up but also pushes people towards doing other things, such as your professions.
Spend the first X amount of hours levelling, then when your EXP drops, you go into crafting mode - Hunting materials etc.

Could work well as long as you have plenty of crafting available.
Fishing too.

You don't find it as a waste of levelling time if you do these whilst you wait for your EXP to go back to full.
 

Wond

Golden Oldie
Golden Oldie
Feb 24, 2004
1,851
76
255
IRELAND
I think @Tai is pretty spot on with his thoughts.

There is nothing to be gained from running with a subscription model. You say to weed out people who intend to be "dickheads" on your server. I'll likely be one of your resident dickheads, subscription or not. You've had a lot of good suggestions outside of subscriptions on how to fund the server. I suggest you take heed of them and scrap this model, as the only reason I can see for you to cling to this idea is stubbornness.
 

Sanjian

Just a Mir2 Fan
VIP
Apr 28, 2011
3,957
5
2,074
350
East Sussex
Not sure if I have read this somewhere (Likely here?) or just made it up in my head.

But a concept I like the idea of, to try and prevent your usual suspects geeking the server 24 hours a day and racing way ahead in the levels department.

You only get a certain amount of time in a day on "Full EXP" - Lets say 3 hours.
After the 3 hours are up, your EXP gained decreases from 100% to 50% for example.

This gives the "casuals" more chance of keeping up but also pushes people towards doing other things, such as your professions.
Spend the first X amount of hours levelling, then when your EXP drops, you go into crafting mode - Hunting materials etc.

Could work well as long as you have plenty of crafting available.
Fishing too.

You don't find it as a waste of levelling time if you do these whilst you wait for your EXP to go back to full.

there is a system in place, based on the time of day, where more experience is awarded if the server is nighttime. i will be making sure its nighttime for the server between the hours of 6pm and 12pm for those that work and cant play as much as grinders.

there is also the rested exp bonus calculations i did for LOF where lower levels gain alot more rested exp than higher levels, meaning the catch up mechanics are already in place.

i have also just finished the fixing of the coding to deal with griefing and pvp

you cannot attack players 5 levels lower than you, they will be immune to your attacks, UNLESS, they are brown, you are at war or they are taking part in sabuk wars.

players griefing this system by blocking paths/doors or abuse of the system will just be banned.

there is no longer any PK points on the server, no one goes yellow or red and no one can drop their entire bag... unless rng deals you a serious blow.

how i will award pvp is yet to be decided. the short version of being attacked is if you dont want to fight, RT/DE

you cannot RT/TT/DE while brown so if your brown its your own fault :)
Post automatically merged:

as an afterthought i may use a system where killing someone gives you a point (not detrimental) if your killed, you lose a point.

that way the players who are better at pvp will have more points and will be shown to everyone..

i dont know yet just spitballing ideas
 

Pottsy

Legend
Legendary
Feb 26, 2004
3,275
251
329
Wow...I didn't realise you were actually entertaining a Sub model...I thought it was just someones suggestion of one.

Honestly you should count yourself lucky you can't get it to work...please let people know if you decide to go down that route, because it would be a shame to miss out on the work you've clearly put in....but I will be stepping out if thats the model you're using.
 

Hercules

Prime Hunter
Banned
Jun 4, 2018
1,922
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Asda
there is a system in place, based on the time of day, where more experience is awarded if the server is nighttime. i will be making sure its nighttime for the server between the hours of 6pm and 12pm for those that work and cant play as much as grinders.

there is also the rested exp bonus calculations i did for LOF where lower levels gain alot more rested exp than higher levels, meaning the catch up mechanics are already in place.

i have also just finished the fixing of the coding to deal with griefing and pvp

you cannot attack players 5 levels lower than you, they will be immune to your attacks, UNLESS, they are brown, you are at war or they are taking part in sabuk wars.

players griefing this system by blocking paths/doors or abuse of the system will just be banned.

there is no longer any PK points on the server, no one goes yellow or red and no one can drop their entire bag... unless rng deals you a serious blow.

how i will award pvp is yet to be decided. the short version of being attacked is if you dont want to fight, RT/DE

you cannot RT/TT/DE while brown so if your brown its your own fault :)
Post automatically merged:

as an afterthought i may use a system where killing someone gives you a point (not detrimental) if your killed, you lose a point.

that way the players who are better at pvp will have more points and will be shown to everyone..

i dont know yet just spitballing ideas

Sooo your saying you can’t Pk noobs on the run from innkeeperSZ to StandardSZ?
...I loved doing that 😂😂😂

Love all the other ideas, and the nighttime one especially 👍🏻
 

jaffar99

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
Jun 15, 2011
161
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Wow...I didn't realise you were actually entertaining a Sub model...I thought it was just someones suggestion of one.

Honestly you should count yourself lucky you can't get it to work...please let people know if you decide to go down that route, because it would be a shame to miss out on the work you've clearly put in....but I will be stepping out if thats the model you're using.

The price of a coffee a month isn't that drastic is it.

75p a week to play, really isn't that big of a deal.
 

Pottsy

Legend
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Feb 26, 2004
3,275
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329
The price of a coffee a month isn't that drastic is it.

75p a week to play, really isn't that big of a deal.

Was wondering when this defence will raise it's head lol.

FYI that kind of attitude is how people find themselves in debt. If you think thats the focus of why I wouldn't play a sub model server, then it's not worth arguing about.
 

zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
3,167
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Was wondering when this defence will raise it's head lol.

FYI that kind of attitude is how people find themselves in debt. If you think thats the focus of why I wouldn't play a sub model server, then it's not worth arguing about.

TBH, when i played WoW Classic the sub system was kinda nice.
Again... Mir is not WoW :(
 

LightBringer

Primordial GM
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Feb 13, 2014
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Well Sanj,

I would agree with Tai's point, i would happily pay for a subscription but the majority (even though they may donate, may not like feeling forced to pay to play the game)

Personally I would put cosmetics into your store; have an optional subscription that gives you some small bonus' over the standard player (10% exp while sub is active) - this way people get something for their money - add an optional "Just Donate" button, which goes towards the dedi costs but without getting anything back - you might get some kind people! haha
 
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MonoxideLenny

Adwaa
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Jan 23, 2014
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@Sanjian with the pvp thing does this 5 level rule not apply in kr aswell? Its gonna kinda suck if i show up to a boss room and cant fight the guy thats already there killing it for the boss because he is 5 levels lower than me.
 

LightBringer

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@Sanjian with the pvp thing does this 5 level rule not apply in kr aswell? Its gonna kinda suck if i show up to a boss room and cant fight the guy thats already there killing it for the boss because he is 5 levels lower than me.

I suppose the argument is, if its balanced, ideally you will be hunting bosses of your area.

So if WT is for a 33, and you are 40 and a group of level 31s has it, they dont have to get smashed by the level 40over it.
as its a big boss with current rewards for them; where as the level 40 would just be these to kill it for the slight potential of a rare.
 

MonoxideLenny

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I suppose the argument is, if its balanced, ideally you will be hunting bosses of your area.

So if WT is for a 33, and you are 40 and a group of level 31s has it, they dont have to get smashed by the level 40over it.
as its a big boss with current rewards for them; where as the level 40 would just be these to kill it for the slight potential of a rare.
But what if WT drops Tele ring? Then im still gonna want to farm it at level 50 let alone 40
 

LightBringer

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But what if WT drops Tele ring? Then im still gonna want to farm it at level 50 let alone 40

That's true, I suppose it depends on the approach he takes on drop files and such, personally I love a good blood bath in a KR, irrelevant of levels.

Its half the fun when you have a boss is shitting yourself, that some over levelled dick head is going to come in and 1 shot you and take your boss xD
 
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