Some maps

Far

tsniffer
Staff member
Developer
May 19, 2003
20,172
30
2,767
540
For larger objects that have tens of tiles per column, you could even specify how many tiles it should place in one key press. Could use num keypad where each number would put down that many tiles in one go and judge object by object how many you would place in one click. You would only need to correct the bottom column ending in case of overflow.
Unfortunately it's impossible judge how many tiles are going to be in the next column, none of the objects are squares, they use the exact amount of tiles required to fit the full image - and since you have no way of knowing what that image will be until you build it, you can't know ahead of time what size it's going to be.

You couldn't even have a system to auto place the next tile and manually move to the next column, as you have no idea if you need to start lower or higher than you did last time (since all objects are on an isometric grid it changes constantly). Plus wemade like to change their order constantly of how the tiles get placed. They sometimes also like to split the objects in to multiple sections, and have them overlay each other in chunks. Or leave part of an object to a different part of the library.

I don't believe there is any more efficient system available than what i've already added in this editor. Even if there was, we're 90% of the way there now, so any new system would be counter productive at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OxxpqxxO

SmavidDavid

Playing Legend of Mir 5
Legendary
Jun 13, 2006
4,100
509
310
Worthing, West Sussex
Unfortunately it's impossible judge how many tiles are going to be in the next column, none of the objects are squares, they use the exact amount of tiles required to fit the full image - and since you have no way of knowing what that image will be until you build it, you can't know ahead of time what size it's going to be.

You couldn't even have a system to auto place the next tile and manually move to the next column, as you have no idea if you need to start lower or higher than you did last time (since all objects are on an isometric grid it changes constantly). Plus wemade like to change their order constantly of how the tiles get placed. They sometimes also like to split the objects in to multiple sections, and have them overlay each other in chunks. Or leave part of an object to a different part of the library.

I don't believe there is any more efficient system available than what i've already added in this editor. Even if there was, we're 90% of the way there now, so any new system would be counter productive at this point.

+1 - I remember when i used to build them, you think you've spotted a pattern then boom its changed. ITs when theres no gap between objects and you need to try think where the cutoff should be. Does Mir3 have high/low level attributes that nobody ever used correctly? That was the final straw trying to decide if a player should/shouldnt walk on that little stone!


I do not envy you both.
 

OxxpqxxO

Dentity
Veteran
Oct 25, 2012
331
44
55
That's okay, there's only a couple of libraries left to rebuild, and we've done so many that it's become a very simple (but long) process.
Building them manualy is indeed something that not to many are ready for, thats why i offered my help, to bad it was at the end of the progress "if i only knew earlier" what can we do when thats the only way we can do it, but i am really glad that you guys managed to get them sorted, i cant thank you enough for what you guys are doing for lom community.
I don't believe there is any more efficient system available than what i've already added in this editor. Even if there was, we're 90% of the way there now, so any new system would be counter productive at this point.
90% thats really nice! Sorry if i am pushy right now but how much time do you think it will take for you guys to finish the other 10%? because now i get really excited about making some maps, are you guys building both wemade and shanda objects?
 
Last edited:

Fusion

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 13, 2013
607
254
125
Ireland
I wish there was a way to automatically build them. But creating objects is literally a tile by tile process of rebuilding each image. If it was a program we'd have been done months ago.
When i seen his comment i was thinking, wait is there an way to do this automatically. that would of been nice :geek:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: zedina

mir2pion

TL;DR
Veteran
Feb 21, 2013
3,091
502
175
Unfortunately it's impossible judge how many tiles are going to be in the next column, none of the objects are squares

You couldn't even have a system to auto place the next tile and manually move to the next column, as you have no idea if you need to start lower or higher than you did last time (since all objects are on an isometric grid it changes constantly). Plus wemade like to change their order constantly of how the tiles get placed. They sometimes also like to split the objects in to multiple sections, and have them overlay each other in chunks. Or leave part of an object to a different part of the library.

That about auto-filling whole columns was about the newer style Shanda maps which are squares or rectangles and you need to build them up from libraries.

As an aside about those maps - I know you and others scoff over them because you think they are 'flat' pictures. But those smart Chinese came up with a very devious technique of making objects that you can hide behind on these maps.
If you examine such a map in editor, it does look like a flat picture - everything is on front layer yet you can still go behind objects on such map. When I found out how its done, I was laughing. Only shortcoming of that technique is the loss of modularity.

Because of those pitfalls you list I suggested that simple automation 'auto-next-tile selection at mouse tip'. I describe it a bit better bellow here, having had time to think on it.

It is automation where initially you select a tile in library as usual but then when you click on map to place it, automatically the next tile would be loaded at mouse tip for you, so you only need to click on map without also pressing a key to move to next tile before each click.
If you made an error and undo it, you would click key to select the previous tile and continue on with this automation (prev/next keys would still work as normal in this automation).

If the object is not continuous in library, you would need to find where it continues as usual and once you located next section of tiles, you would select first tile from it and continue placing tiles without having to press 'next tile' key each time. I did come even across objects that are built up in reverse but you could either make this automation reversible (auto-select prev tile) or simply use manual building with automation switched off since those are exceptions I believe.

I suppose you don't lift the objects from maps because libraries have objects not found on maps or it is only sure way to catch all.
 
Last edited:

Far

tsniffer
Staff member
Developer
May 19, 2003
20,172
30
2,767
540
Technically all maps are flat in the sense a player is drawn in front of every layer, even though you have several layers in the current format you can get away with just one from a solid image.

Making players go behind an object is simple case of making the tile multiple cells tall, and every cell except the bottom one will be in front of the player.
 

Kakashi

AMATERASU
Dedicated Member
Aug 31, 2014
164
36
55
Number 8:

Mid room full of mobs - who kills most wins. 3 rounds. PK/PvP mode ON.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fusion

mir2pion

TL;DR
Veteran
Feb 21, 2013
3,091
502
175
@Far, you're right about all that, I understand how it works. This is about a very crafty way how to make objects. Those maps use a a very smart and efficient technique to turn parts of ordinary picture (trees, columns, buildings on the picture) into objects that you can go behind once you cut the picture up into smtiles and make a map out of it.

In map editor these maps have a single front layer made of smtiles, meaning if you hide the layer, everything vanishes... but loaded in the client they still somehow have object elements on map that you can move behind. Back in the map editor, it took me a bit to work that technique out, deleting tiles one by one and being puzzled why the deletion didn't work on the objects, given its just a single layer map...

I thought you guys don't know about it because of sceptic dismissal of those maps in past whenever they were talked about. The concern was they are just 'flat' pictures without proper objects on them.
 
Last edited:

OxxpqxxO

Dentity
Veteran
Oct 25, 2012
331
44
55
Got a question about the new map editor, are you able to use mir2 objects aswell?
 

Far

tsniffer
Staff member
Developer
May 19, 2003
20,172
30
2,767
540
Got a question about the new map editor, are you able to use mir2 objects aswell?
Zircon can only read mir3 libraries, so mir2 objects and map formats outside of mir3 are not supported.

I also have no intention of adding such support or making the map editor work with crystal, as it already has a capable editor
 

OxxpqxxO

Dentity
Veteran
Oct 25, 2012
331
44
55
Zircon can only read mir3 libraries, so mir2 objects and map formats outside of mir3 are not supported.

I also have no intention of adding such support or making the map editor work with crystal, as it already has a capable editor
Aren't the object1c and object2c actualy objects from mir2 inside the folder of mir3?
 

Far

tsniffer
Staff member
Developer
May 19, 2003
20,172
30
2,767
540
Technically. Originally mir3 was meant to just be a patch for mir2, until it got too big so they called it a new game.

I expect object1c and 2c are just remnants of that. But they're still in the wtl mir3 format
 
  • Like
Reactions: OxxpqxxO

Fusion

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 13, 2013
607
254
125
Ireland
Cant add this to first post as max on attachments.

Battleground 2- idea was like donination, there is 3 areas once player stand in the area there team takes control of it,
1651949209286-png.27697
 

Attachments

  • 1651949209286.png
    1651949209286.png
    481.7 KB · Views: 69
  • battleground2.rar
    35.6 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OxxpqxxO

mir2pion

TL;DR
Veteran
Feb 21, 2013
3,091
502
175
It wasn't that mir3 got big but Korean mir2 players evidently must have raised voice against move to it so they made the transition voluntary (maybe just to test how many would move over) and then the decision was made to make mir3 separate game and the expectation was that mir2 will soon die off, in a year or two... but that never happened.

Same thing happened with euro mir, not sure about numbers but few moved to play mir3 since I don't recall any significant server depopulation at the time (on Phoenix anyway). Probably got new players via TV ads that might still have been on at the time in late2001? I remember trying mir3 for a day and went back to mir2.

That c might stand for Classic, harking back to mir2? But it is used on all libraries and it is 'sc'...
 
Last edited:

Far

tsniffer
Staff member
Developer
May 19, 2003
20,172
30
2,767
540
It wasn't that mir3 got big but Korean mir2 players evidently must have raised voice against move to it so they made the transition voluntary (maybe just to test how many would move over) and then the decision was made to make mir3 separate game and the expectation was that mir2 will soon die off, in a year or two... but that never happened.

Same thing happened with euro mir, not sure about numbers but few moved to play mir3 since I don't recall any significant server depopulation at the time (on Phoenix anyway). Probably got new players via TV ads that might still have been on at the time in late2001? I remember trying mir3 for a day and went back to mir2.

That c might stand for Classic, harking back to mir2? But it is used on all libraries and it is 'sc'...

The library he's talking about is object1c in the mir3 client. And the sc is likely an abbreviation of scenery.

And yeah c standing for classic does sound plausible, but who knows
 
  • Like
Reactions: mir2pion

Fusion

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 13, 2013
607
254
125
Ireland
Taosung(wall) idea

The idea here was to go back to the old way with mobs but bit diffrent. or could be an event of some sort.
Players can enter from the 3 spots or telestone they have to break down the one gate to enter the wall, the first mobs could be range like the numa lighting mob as they can attack players over the wall, once an player kills an lighting mob(YELLOW) an orage mob responds and once orage is killed then Green responds. When x amount of mobs is killed the Boss responds on the steps at the back. and players have to kill him for reward or to take control of the wall.

If players die by mobs or by other player they reborn in the graveyard.

I dont know if an MOD can compine this into the first post along with my last post,im at max attachments.
1652644266300.png
 

Attachments

  • taosung idea.rar
    98.8 KB · Views: 1
  • Like
Reactions: OxxpqxxO