Is it true.

[Atomicide]

Science is your way of explaining things.
Christianity is their way of explaining things.

The difference between the two lies in credibility and proof. The bible is a 1000 year old book, that has never ever developed, or "moved with the times" and so on. Its basic message is one that has been passed down by word of mouth and more than likely altered in a "chinese whispers" style. There is no real crdible proof of anything in the bible, other than the fact a person called "Jesus" existed, and that was a fairly common name at the time. The bible doesn't aknowledge the existence of dinosaurs, and "hardcore christians" who take the bible for its word are adamant that they never existed.

Science on the other hand has far more credibility, the simple fact science is something that can be proven wrong, and then altered to something that is correct, or in many cases less eroneous makes it far more reliable. Im not saying science is flawless, it is entirely flawless and the fact that this is accepted is what makes it more credible than the bible.

2000 years ago people thought this "Jesus" was the son of god, and 2000 years ago people thought the earth was flat and you could fall off the side.

In modern days the bible still claims Jesus was the son of god, and 99% of its community refuse to accept he may have just been a very good story teller and someone who managed to "con" a civilisation, despite the fact the messages he delivered in doing so dont lose any value or meaning if this is the case. As for the earth, people now know it is round, although that took some convincing, but people accepted it and thus science developed.

In 2000 years Science has taken itself and the world forward. The Bible and religion are still the same old stagnant ****, used as an excuse for wars, which Science is makes easier and a bit more intresting.

 

[mythonline]

1) the bible was written about ~3.5k years ago in fact, and i don't agree that it need updates, at least the real part (for me ^^ but thats not the argument) no need updates. it is giving u a way of living. until now it was already proven by science that most of the things god asked from Israel was actually good for them (maybe in the future we will see that everything is good), washing hands before eating to be clean, to cut the end of ur dick to prevent some diseases ect. those thoughts was not really in the mind of ppls, no one knew those things back then, if u read some of the jewish writes u will see that many of the things there can be proven by science today, god don't need our science to understand those stuff. no need to update the bible
2) i don't think u ever read the bible. at least not with translations, if u did u would know that it just don't need any sort of change. most of it is talking about events that happened back then, they are teaching u lessons and if u follow the bible u will find out that you are a better person.
3) there is nothing in the bible that said that that the earth is not round, sorry to disappoint you, but i couldn't find even 1 evidence that the bible said anything about that subject. u cannot expect it to write everything in that amount of pages.
4) yes, science is something that can be proven wrong. evolution theory might be proven wrong some day, god may be proven right 1 day, what will u do if he does?

 

[Pyraine]

Mythonline, you are the stupidest motherf*cker this planet has, if the bible was written 3.5k years ago, why are we not living in the year 3507 AD? I'll tell you, because anything before Jesus' birth is considered before 0 AD hence the time period "BC" meaning, "Before Christ"

If you can't even grasp that simple fact, the little credibility you had left as a scientist has just been thrown away.

Also, it's a common know fact that people thought the world was flat until I think it was Christopher Columbus sailed the seas and realised he had gone the whole way round the world.

However, this doesn't mean Atomicide is right.

So this "Chinese Whispers" style in which you say the bible is used. For starters, I wasn't saying Christians and Scientists are the same, I said religious people and Scientists are the same, irrelevant, however, do you know any Scientists yourself, acquaintance of Darwin were you? confidant of Einstein? or maybe did you hear their theories passed down through the media and the educational system? the same media that convinced the world 12 years ago that 288 children died in a fire in chinese theatre because they "were so excited and thought the flames were part of the show", while in reality, they died because elderly members of the CCP ordered them to stay sat down to ensure that they could be the first to safely exit the building.

The media can and does manipulate you to believe what is most convenient for people to believe and going by that basis, is it overly paranoid and too far fetch to just put it to you that alot of these scientific theories are just manipulation?

 

[Atomicide]

I wouldn't doubt the media pick and chose what to say. I don't think there is any need for scientists to outright manipulate or lie about these things. I mean, evolution explains where we came from and how we developed. Most people show a slight intrest in this but for many we don't care anymore. In terms of the media and science, and the general public we don't have a real intrest in these things unless they are one of the following:

1. Almost entirely unknown
2. An incredible discovery

The beginning of the universe is still something that is entirely unknown and I would say the majority of the human race has been fascinated or at least captivated by the possible formation of the universe, or by the vastness of space. If aliens were proven to exist, it would be a great thing, everyone woud give two ****s for about a year, then it would be "who cares" and onto business as usual. This planet that they discovered is big news, and people cared for about a week.

 

[mythonline]

pyrain did it occur on ur little brain that 0 bc is not when the date when the bible was written, as there is no connection between the bible and jesus? there is nothing about Jesus in the bible, not a single word.
the Tora (first part of the bible) was written in about 1500 bc, by moses after we left Egypt, ur just so stupid.
about the world was flat, in fact only Christianity thought that way, the fact that they were idiots just like you doesn't mean everyone are like that, they said a lot of stuff, most of the stuff u know about religious are because of theirs stupidity, they insist on keeping the stupidity going just like the jihad today, as its the easiest way to keep controlling their peoples.
just to proof ur stupidity even more, Christopher Columbus went on his cruise only after he knew that the world was round, in fact he wanted to go to India on a different way as its a long way at the regular way (to make a big round), therefore when he got to America, he called it "India" as he thought he made it to America.
and about the science, have it ever occur to you, that u can get to the same conclusions by making experiments? ofc u will need brain for that, something i am not quite sure god equipped you with ^^, but anyway, god made the world, and when he made the world, he made its laws, the laws of science.
about the media, there is no reason in the world why the media would change anything those ppls said, science is based on logic, not on faith, there is huge difference between those two, science u can check anywhere u want, its the same thing as god would appear to you when u ask him to.
and about the manipulations of the media, i would say right now that u are way too much manipulated by the thought that the whole media is one big scam... the media has flews true, but if ur smart enough u can understand from different sources the main things that happened.
if u ask me, Christianity is manipulating way more then the media.

 

[Shard]

as there is no connection between the bible and jesus? there is nothing about Jesus in the bible, not a single word.

...Sorry, did I just read that?

 

[mythonline]

the book that ur referring is the New Testament, not the bible. the bible is the tanah, which means Tora Nevieim Ktuvim -> 3 main parts of the bible, in all of them there is no 1 mention of jesus. for me as a jew there is no New Testament, there is just bible.
that was what i was referring to, however that moron did not understand that.

 

[Pyraine]

I'm out of this thread for good now..

Mythonline understands nothing anybody says and nobody understands him.

Therefore the thread is rendered pointless til this idiot leaves.

 

[Atomicide]

I'm out of this thread for good now..

Mythonline understands nothing anybody says and nobody understands him.

Therefore the thread is rendered pointless til this idiot leaves.

his grasp oif the English language is **** because he is from another country. However that doesn't give any reason as to why he cannot understand one ****ing thing we say, and the fact he cannot punctuate or paragraph at all.

Mythonline, ive lost patience now. Your a ****ing moron, you only see one way of thinking and thats your way, I mean, you weren't even smart enough to know that "The bible" DOES ****ing refer to jesus, half the bible is about Jesus. The stuff you were refering to or "the old testament" and the various forms of it in your own language and religion are just that, other forms with other names, therefore they are not actually the bible which is of christian descent.

You are one of the people that think your religion to be above all other, you think that you religion is 100% correct despite the fact you also claim to have beleif in science. In short, your the sort of ****ing moron that thinks "holy wars" are a good idea. Your bacon hating, hat wearing fag religion is the one that killed Jesus in our bible you circumcised peice of ****. **** you and **** your retarded religion. You want to start crap about religion then ill happily be a **** about it. Before anyone decides to play a racism card or anything, I would like to point out that I dislike all religions equally.

 

[mythonline]

atomicide, the fact that i was saying that the bible was written 3.5k years ago and i was referring to what u call "the old testament" is the little ****ing fact that i am jew and for me there is no ****ing "new testament" and for that i can say that for me the bible was written 3.5k ****ing years ago, the fact that u dont know that jews do call what u call "the old testament" just the bible, just shows that ur the one who has lack of knowledge.
"In short, your the sort of ****ing moron that thinks "holy wars" are a good idea." -> ur just a moron that think he know everything but understand nothing, think he is above everyone, and made himself believe that he really listen to the other side, while in fact no matter what the other side will say, he will still think the same, and if the other side is right, he will just get upset.
u want war on that? fine!
the Christianity's is one of the most ****ing **** the world ever saw, i will give u a few reasons out of many:
1) Christianity is probably the religious the most ****ing retarded religious in history, all ur ****ing writes has been written 2 generations after jesus death, and yet, u still believe that it all completely true.
2) Christianity is just like the jihad, it just a way to control peoples. the fact that the time when it was in control was mainly in the medieval, should shows that. they annihilate everyone in the name of their ****ing religious just to make peoples afraid enough not to rebel against them. they caused millions of death just for that purpose. u think that the jihad is so bad? Christianity is 10 times more.
3) ye, i sure hope we did caused Jesus to die, any chance to prevent what happened after that sure worth it! ur ****ing "Holy Inquisition" killed millions of jews just because there was a chance that many generations before there was a chance, that a little group of jews killed 1 man, and therefore they should all burn...
4) have u ever saw "la nome della rosa"? i rest my case!

 

[Atomicide]

Ill listen to the other side, but I'm hardly going to be swayed by their arguement when it basically makes no sense and is based on out of date and poor information. Lets use an example of such.

You claim that the old testament is called "The bible" in the Jewish Religion. Its actually called "Tanakh" or sometimes the "Hebrew Bible." Congradulations on getting your own ****ing religion wrong, let alone failing to understand another.

Second, insulting christianity is a waste of your time if your trying to annoy me. Im not affiliated, and do not care for any form mainstream religion.

The first thing you actually got right in this entire thread is the comparison of the Crusades to Jihad, this is why religions are retarded, and science is superior. People will die for their religion based on pure blind faith and beleifs, and wage war on the same basis. Ive never heard of someone killing themselves because scientists proved humans and apes are similar in genetic structure.

The great thing was that Jihad and the Crusades were both wars fought to protect their religions. Jihad is something that is occuring in modern times with islamic extremists. The crusades where something that occured in the past. However before all that the jews persecuted "Jesus" because he was a threat to their religion. Then again, I guess its a kick in the face when a single man manages to convert a large portion of your religion to a new beleif.

I know of "Il nome della rosa" please if your going to use somethign to augment your arguement please spell it correctly. I fail to see how the book has any impact on what im saying, unless of course you have completely misintepreted the book. The main point of the book was that the main character refused to accept the "normal reasoning" for the deaths in the chapel. Its more or less like taking the "Occums Razor" law where the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

 

[Peart]

This thread began as an extremely interesting thread, by about the third page you all started repeating yourselves.

I have come personally to the conclusion that there are several definitive attributes that apply to both strictly religious people and scientifically minded people.

For starters they are all so god damned ignorant. They are given a factor that disproves something they are taught and they simply disprove it with one of their own personal theories. Which unless you have studied the bible intently or have a PHD in science, is not actually worth anything.

Secondly, they are both beliefs, but the person who came up with these theories, what is to make these scientists anymore reliable than those who wrote the bible? To further my point, and yes, I am being pedantic, do you know these scientists personally? How do you know that they aren't lying to you? Have you conducted their experiments personally? Science is just as much a religion as christianity.

Science is your way of explaining things.
Christianity is their way of explaining things.

They are all, simply beliefs.

You're all morons to think that your way of thinking is the only way.

The thing is, science uses repeatable, confirmable and viable experiments to prove or come close to proving many of its theories, the methods of which are often publically available and known by a large portion of the scientific community. The fundamental theories, eg the big bang, evolution etc, are generally accepted among scientists because so many tests and experiments have taken place over the years that build on these theories and continuously bring to light new information. It doesn't matter if I know any scientists personally, or have conducted any experiments, because the works of science are well documented and have been tried and tested many times over by many different scientists/universities/research foundations, and I'm supposed to believe they're all in on some massive mind maniupulation conspiracy? That the basic theories of science that have constantly evolved and been updated for over hundreds of years were just arbitrarily created because for some reason the media would find it convinient?

 

[Tass]

If you want to carry out a theory and prove it you cannot spend your time recreating the same experiment just to see if its true or not.

After all "You can only see further by standing on the shoulder of giants."

 

[RedDragonX]

This thread was actually quite interesting when it started off, now its turned into a flame war.

One solution, Close

 

[Atomicide]

This thread was actually quite interesting when it started off, now its turned into a flame war.

One solution, Close

Or, you could pay no attention to it.

 

[mythonline]

atomicide - in fact at my school when we talk about the Tanakh, we say bible in English, the fact that u didn't know that has nothing to do with any misunderstanding of my religious.
about science, i wish u could say that science did not kill anyone, however so many peoples died from the new weapons science developed ect that its just not true. the real thing is, both religious and science usually kill peoples just when its followers want to kill, not because the religious/science made them do it. if u want to compare Christians to Jews, its quite simple in fact
1) during history Jews supported 1 another, while Christians just made 1 another misery
2) Jews has a big collections of laws that was given by god and they are have quite a lot of mercy, while Christians have a very low amount of laws so they can basically act at the way they think they should act, and i am pretty sure u can understand where it leads
3) Christians made other peoples convert to their religious, while Jews never did, what make a low amount of believers, but with quality, and giving more evil power to the Christians.
4) while for a Christian it is quite easy to get a redemption, it is very hard for a Jew to get one, and again, it quite easy to understand where it leads.
5) Christians do not go after any sort of science, every sort of science is wrong for them and during history they even persecuted scientist for that, while Jews do not have that limit, we don't say that science is wrong, mainly because it just fit to our religion.
6) while in Christians, some little changes in the religious mean death to the "new religious" followers during the middle ages, the Jews talked with peoples who changed some of it, instead of jumping with swords on them.
about Jesus, he didn't really convert much, in fact in his time there was many sorts of cults beside his, and he didn't have the biggest amount of followers.
about the "Il nome della rosa", it is quite weird that i misspelled it, as i was looking for the translation for the name from the Hebrew name but nvm.
u can clearly find more things in that book then just "The main point of the book was that the main character refused to accept the "normal reasoning" for the deaths in the chapel.", if u read the whole book, u can see how the church is treating to peasants and to their own religious with a little different view.
peart, i do admire the fact that u can write the same things i was saying in more then 2 sentences, and to not be called moron for some stupid reason, however i would add the sentence "it the same thing as god would appear to you" ^^
tass, he didn't believe to the basic stuff, how could he made any sort of theory in that situation? ^^
red dragon, as atomicide said, you can pay no attention to it. however i do believe that it will turn more interesting now.

 

[Wittin]

atomicide - in fact at my school when we talk about the Tanakh, we say bible in English, the fact that u didn't know that has nothing to do with any misunderstanding of my religious.
about science, i wish u could say that science did not kill anyone, however so many peoples died from the new weapons science developed ect that its just not true. the real thing is, both religious and science usually kill peoples just when its followers want to kill, not because the religious/science made them do it. if u want to compare Christians to Jews, its quite simple in fact
1) during history Jews supported 1 another, while Christians just made 1 another misery
2) Jews has a big collections of laws that was given by god and they are have quite a lot of mercy, while Christians have a very low amount of laws so they can basically act at the way they think they should act, and i am pretty sure u can understand where it leads
3) Christians made other peoples convert to their religious, while Jews never did, what make a low amount of believers, but with quality, and giving more evil power to the Christians.
4) while for a Christian it is quite easy to get a redemption, it is very hard for a Jew to get one, and again, it quite easy to understand where it leads.
5) Christians do not go after any sort of science, every sort of science is wrong for them and during history they even persecuted scientist for that, while Jews do not have that limit, we don't say that science is wrong, mainly because it just fit to our religion.
6) while in Christians, some little changes in the religious mean death to the "new religious" followers during the middle ages, the Jews talked with peoples who changed some of it, instead of jumping with swords on them.
about Jesus, he didn't really convert much, in fact in his time there was many sorts of cults beside his, and he didn't have the biggest amount of followers.
about the "Il nome della rosa", it is quite weird that i misspelled it, as i was looking for the translation for the name from the Hebrew name but nvm.
u can clearly find more things in that book then just "The main point of the book was that the main character refused to accept the "normal reasoning" for the deaths in the chapel.", if u read the whole book, u can see how the church is treating to peasants and to their own religious with a little different view.
peart, i do admire the fact that u can write the same things i was saying in more then 2 sentences, and to not be called moron for some stupid reason, however i would add the sentence "it the same thing as god would appear to you" ^^
tass, he didn't believe to the basic stuff, how could he made any sort of theory in that situation? ^^
red dragon, as atomicide said, you can pay no attention to it. however i do believe that it will turn more interesting now.

Firstly I would like to state that I am not a follower of any religion, I am an open minded person willing to accept scientifically proven fact.

1) Firstly the majority of modern civilization (many of the luxiries we enjoy all over the world) is only thanks to the cooperation of christian people, and science. I'm talking about TVs, Computers, Most other eletrical appliences, Motor vehicles, and more... Denial of this would render you very nieve in my point of view. I'm not saying christians are any better than jews, but I feel that what you said above is a rather racist remark.

2) You claim that Jihad, and even christianity are there to create control over the people, yet arn't these 'laws'. They might be there to make people 'better', but as a non religeous person I believe I still have the power to decide between right or wrong for myself.

3) This was never the aim's of christianity, and I would like you to prove it. People might have chosen to believe it themselves, and therefore I'm sure they had reasons to leave the jewish religion.

4) I believe in neither so I cannot comment on this.

5) This is not the case, many great scientist in history have grown up in christian backgrounds. I'm sure christians embrace science just as much as Jews. Infact you have made a few nieve comments in this thread disagreeing with scientificly proven fact.

I'll leave out point 6, for similar reasons to point 4. I dont really want to get into a religious debate.

But going back to the creation of DNA through molecules, you can say that the chances are so slim, but what you fail to regonise is the sheer timescale this occured on. We're talking thousands or millions of years. Many, many, many times organisms would have failed to be granted life, however the process would have looped over and over for millions of years (not only occuring once in one instances but all over the planet) until a successful form of 'life' was created, there was plenty of oppertunity for chance to work itself out.

 

[Atomicide]

atomicide - in fact at my school when we talk about the Tanakh, we say bible in English, the fact that u didn't know that has nothing to do with any misunderstanding of my religious.
about science, i wish u could say that science did not kill anyone, however so many peoples died from the new weapons science developed ect that its just not true. the real thing is, both religious and science usually kill peoples just when its followers want to kill, not because the religious/science made them do it. if u want to compare Christians to Jews, its quite simple in fact
1) during history Jews supported 1 another, while Christians just made 1 another misery
2) Jews has a big collections of laws that was given by god and they are have quite a lot of mercy, while Christians have a very low amount of laws so they can basically act at the way they think they should act, and i am pretty sure u can understand where it leads
3) Christians made other peoples convert to their religious, while Jews never did, what make a low amount of believers, but with quality, and giving more evil power to the Christians.
4) while for a Christian it is quite easy to get a redemption, it is very hard for a Jew to get one, and again, it quite easy to understand where it leads.
5) Christians do not go after any sort of science, every sort of science is wrong for them and during history they even persecuted scientist for that, while Jews do not have that limit, we don't say that science is wrong, mainly because it just fit to our religion.
6) while in Christians, some little changes in the religious mean death to the "new religious" followers during the middle ages, the Jews talked with peoples who changed some of it, instead of jumping with swords on them.
about Jesus, he didn't really convert much, in fact in his time there was many sorts of cults beside his, and he didn't have the biggest amount of followers.
about the "Il nome della rosa", it is quite weird that i misspelled it, as i was looking for the translation for the name from the Hebrew name but nvm.
u can clearly find more things in that book then just "The main point of the book was that the main character refused to accept the "normal reasoning" for the deaths in the chapel.", if u read the whole book, u can see how the church is treating to peasants and to their own religious with a little different view.
peart, i do admire the fact that u can write the same things i was saying in more then 2 sentences, and to not be called moron for some stupid reason, however i would add the sentence "it the same thing as god would appear to you" ^^
tass, he didn't believe to the basic stuff, how could he made any sort of theory in that situation? ^^
red dragon, as atomicide said, you can pay no attention to it. however i do believe that it will turn more interesting now.

I don't actually think you read any posts other people are making, and I highly doubt you read your own either.

First of all, I never said "Science doesn't kill people" I said that nobody has ever killed themselves over blind devotion to a scientific beleif. People die and kill others all the time due to religious conflict. People didn't kill each other when scientists declared Pluto was no longer a planet.

Second, you said that christians "dont go for science" as in, you beleive that Christians dont beleive in scientific theories. Well, im not sure if you noticed, but you've spent the best part of 2 pages telling me that the big bang, and evolution theories are wrong because your religion says so.

Honestly, your a ****ing idiot. You tell me science is wrong, use your religion as a reason to say science is wrong, then tell me that your religion embraces scientific theory and that christians (of whom most other respondee's inthis thread will claim to be be a part of) dont beleive in science at all. Read the ****ing thread and think before responding.

You basically said your opinion of science was formed because of your religion, yet explicitly state your opinion has a different veiw of science than you do.

Take my advice, and stop posting in this thread, because your arguement is so weak that your having to tear it apart yourself to try and make something of it. If this carries on much longer, most of the "opportunists" on the forum are going to be coming in here and flaming you to hell.

 

[Tass]

tass, he didn't believe to the basic stuff, how could he made any sort of theory in that situation? ^^

huh?

Anyways what you on about scientists kill over their beliefs, LAL, you came up with the most useless arguement that Weapons Of Mass Destruction is a case of science killing. Moron ¬_¬

 

[Apple & Beach]

I don't actually think you read any posts other people are making, and I highly doubt you read your own either.

First of all, I never said "Science doesn't kill people" I said that nobody has ever killed themselves over blind devotion to a scientific beleif. People die and kill others all the time due to religious conflict. People didn't kill each other when scientists declared Pluto was no longer a planet.

Second, you said that christians "dont go for science" as in, you beleive that Christians dont beleive in scientific theories. Well, im not sure if you noticed, but you've spent the best part of 2 pages telling me that the big bang, and evolution theories are wrong because your religion says so.

Honestly, your a ****ing idiot. You tell me science is wrong, use your religion as a reason to say science is wrong, then tell me that your religion embraces scientific theory and that christians (of whom most other respondee's inthis thread will claim to be be a part of) dont beleive in science at all. Read the ****ing thread and think before responding.

You basically said your opinion of science was formed because of your religion, yet explicitly state your opinion has a different veiw of science than you do.

Take my advice, and stop posting in this thread, because your arguement is so weak that your having to tear it apart yourself to try and make something of it. If this carries on much longer, most of the "opportunists" on the forum are going to be coming in here and flaming you to hell.

why do you bother to reply ? lol you can clearly see that his in his own lil world and only he is right :Sso your post goes in one ear and flys out the other. lol