The official Lebanon Vs. Israel thread
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germay
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Only reason I'm not supporting Israel is because of their blatant disrespect for Human life. The Lebanese as a people have done nothing to enfringe the soverignty of Israel, but here we have Israel going gung-ho as usual and taking over half a country, killing many hundred civilians (wtf? 4th best army and they can't aim?) in a matter of a couple of weeks...
Turin
Turin
Turin said:
There are always going to be civilian casualties and while I don't have any comment on their particular bombing or what not, I can see how they are incredibly fed up and aren't going to take any BS anymore. The Lebonese government needs to step up and erradicate Hezbollah and I hope no one gives me any **** about they can't.
urbanfox said:
I agree with the Lebnon government part; I can't agree at all with the them bieng "fed up". That can't be an excuse for the destruction of innocent life, or else they are as bad as the Islamofacist who use the same line. I'd hate to put the two in the same sentance, but from what's currently happening, especially the attack on Qana is disgraceful.
There's no trust between either party unfortunately, and Israel has got a powerful veto power on its side against any sanctions/UN resolutions against it. I can say very little for the Palestinians and Lebanese. How long before the guns are turned on Syria and Iran? I'm thinking a lot of the Iranians now really do want a nuke as a deterrent against Israeli aggression.
Historically, the early Jewish settlers were aggressive zealots (Urgun etc) wanting British rule to end there, followed by pogomatic Arab rebellion. The yom-kipoor war basically sealed the fate of land confiscation by the Israeli government and led to the current situation with Palestinian land and Arab resentment.
Unforunately for the Lebanese government they are powerless to eradicate Hezbollah because of their strong footing as a political as well as a paramilitary power in their country. What's more is that Syria and Iran are readily arming them to fight for the Sheba Farms as well as the thousands of "hostages" already held by Israel (something very few people allude to).
Israel should never have been created there, but now that it is, we got to find a way of living together and ending hostilities.
Turin
Who wins, YOU decide.
For lebanon call 0459 i want leban.
For israil call 0842 i want israel.
If you want to make a complaint or tell us how you don't like war and want to go save the animals press 5.
For lebanon call 0459 i want leban.
For israil call 0842 i want israel.
If you want to make a complaint or tell us how you don't like war and want to go save the animals press 5.
Turin said:
They take soldiers hostage, they shoot missiles into civilian areas, they generally **** with Israel. What does the Lebonese government do? NADA. Ye, I'd be ****ing pissed too.
They did not just all the sudden one day show up and start dropping bombs. In the initial area's they dropped leaflets and let everyone know, hey, we're coming. Did it go further from there? Yes, this is war, war is not confined to one square on the map. Is civilian loss horrible? Absolutely.
Israel is not on the security council, neither a permanent nor a temporary member.
That's just rediculous. If you **** with Israel, you get ****ed back. I don't see Israel randomly attacking anyone whom it has peace with.
No one's ever powerless, they just lack the determination to do it.
Iran just uses it as an excuse to indirectly attack Israel without internation warning.
That's your oppinion.
Stop the suicide bombings permanently, stop the hostage taking, stop the attacks, and I guarantee there will be peace.
urbanfox said:
Firstly I'd like to appologise for the crappy typos I made in the earlier post, I was under the influence of apple juice :P
I am by no means condoning the actions of Hezbollah meight, don't get me wrong with that. I'm just saying Israeli policy of "Never Again" has given it a amazingly free hand. With the support of the US and power of veto, Israel can get away with almost anything. It has for example defied more resolutions from the UN than any other country in the Middle East (except Iraq I think), yet there isn't any coalition forces invading the country.
You're using "they" very leniantly here especially since we're talking about two seperate entities. Hezbollah have been firing misiles into Israel not the Lebanese government. They have not conducted a suicide bombing for over six years now to my understanding however many people sideline the real issue over the missle attacks. Hezbollah's agenda in hostage taking was the return of hostages taken on part of Israel and of prisoners, some which have been taken from the land of another soverign power which couldn't do anythign to stop them. Other examples, and more.
I can say with almost all certainty that if the Hezbollah and other hostile Arabs were in a powerful situation as Israel, and Jews (in Israel) were inferior AFTER the hostilities have taken place, then it would be the Arabs that were comitting the war crimes. In any case, if Israel wants to retain the position of "holier than thou' and repair damage with PR, they need to make an immediate cessation of hostilities.
No mate, I'm aware of that as I said it was a gradual culmination of events, hence my rhetoric about the six day war. When Israel was subjected to the yom kipoor war, they ended up going into a truce for the first time.
Jewish zealots were in fact the first to start terrorist bombings, not on the Arab people of the British mandate of Palestine per sé but the british embassy itself. The famouse King David Hotel incident, when the Jewish terrorists tried to immitate Arabs to destroy their PR.
After that, when the British handed over the mandate to the League of Nations, later the UN, through pressure from the US an Israeli state was established and the Arab pogoms began. (<<< This is a very serious issue which should be discussed as a topic itself. )
If anyone is interested in why there so much hate between the Muslims and Jews nowdays (unlike during the Islamic empire, where Jews held some of the highest positions) look at al-Husayni's bio. I mean the guy even tried to
allie with Nazis! He is the source of the amplification of hatred towards Jewish people and his ideology has grown into huge animosity with two very close brethrens.
Continued...
Regardless; you just emphasise my point in terms of their direct and indirect potential to deflect anything the UN throws at them. They have just as little respect for the organisation besides rhetorical actions.
Yes you get shafted pretty unproportionately hard. And generally, the wrong people tend to suffer as a result. Tell me meight, if you find any of this appalling? This "act of war" has gone on for two and a half weeks now and yet....
Yes it is. Educated Opinion at that... I admit its easy saying things with hindsight, but the Arabs were very rebellius during the UN decleration and itw as enough of a foresight for the problems it was going to cause. Yet as usual, their voice was neglected and now we have this problem.
I can't see how people in a rational world can claim a piece of land on the basis of having it handed to them by "God" over 3000 [sic] years ago? Be they Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
I agree with all that and the cessation of Israeli aggression, the impartial influence of all superpowers in the region, the respect of soveriegnty on Israeli's behalf and the practice of equal representation of claim to the land.
Indeed, I was hoping someone would point out the campaign of terror employed by the Zionists against Britain around 1946.
I find it rather amusing that Isreal so rapidly forgets it's past when talking about it's future, and that all of us who are in favour of lebanon are likely to be branded Anti-Semitic.
I find it rather amusing that Isreal so rapidly forgets it's past when talking about it's future, and that all of us who are in favour of lebanon are likely to be branded Anti-Semitic.
