Longevity of Mir 2

[Wummy]

I was going to reply to the tards response but he wrote me an essay and tried to capture individual moments, out of context, i think id be the bigger idiot arguing with him.

But your reply is exactly my reason for posting in the first place.

I got very ill, i never went to paris! but see how a rumor starts? I mean who decided to say paris, probably like 8 people before it got to you, this is why i always say, i cant listen to too many opinions on mir, because while its MOSTLY with good intentions, if often comes from a bad source/experience.

Anyone who thinks i did not work my but off for Apoc, is delusional. The Elite mir guy or w/e had a bad experience and cant manage to see past his tunnel vision. His information is so poor i may aswell go get feedback from Winnie the Pooh.

Kane said to me you went to paris!… dunno why everyone is slating you off! all previous gms is bad as each other…. and the mir community gms have to put up with is toxic…. all gms has done bad/good. Yes you was there but you was in the wrong at some parts… just like all other people who put up a server

 

[Scampi]

Don't expect much to change in 2023, or 2024, or 2025 etc. other than the community continually shrinking.

Players will flock to whatever horror show or not the next server release will be, play 2-6 weeks, realise they weren't able to be one of the top dogs once again, blame the server, and try again on the next one.

Some players will be insistent on becoming a big fish in a small Mir pond so will spend thousands on a server for the advantage. These are the ones more likely to hang around a bit longer than most in a futile attempt to gain some ROI satisfaction.

It doesn't matter in a way what the server owners model is as the most toxic element is the community. Where the hell did internet cafes full of Egyptians commercially gold farming / selling come from in the first place anyway? They are only there because there's a market though - which is a shockingly large percentage of the active playing community.

Then the simple fact new servers / games are always fun for the opening couple of weeks so people will go to the new servers. Then it's just down to the GM to extract as much as they possibly can from the few that are prepared to endlessly contribute. It's a relatively small percentage that are exploited to a high level, and the rest of the user count are just fluffers validating the worth of the few p2w players. GMs often know if they don't monetise their own server shamelessly, it will only be other players which benefit the most (from the GMs work) instead of them.

The fact is the majority of server owners are, and will continue to be blood sucking, predatory opportunists. LOMCN ought to take some responsibility for what they promote, but they don't care - just like the players don't really either because every server is disposable. Move on to the next pop up.

So what I would like to hope I see in 2023 and beyond is a change in player expectations from servers. A demand for a plan of longevity and to not be treated like a tourist walking round a souk by GMs. For future servers to consider a subscription based model of sorts rather than straight up pay2win - but I don't expect that to happen, as if it isn't the GMs there are plenty of parasites in this stinking community always looking for their next lucrative opportunity.

 

[MasterD]

Reading through this shows a huge split in what people think the game should be - How it was and how it should be. I always look at as how it was.

Maybe i'm just old and I play Mir for the nostalgic feeling. I played around Mir 2 for around 6 weeks in the year 2022, so maybe my opinion shouldn't be as taken as serious as others as I've seen people jump from server to server & its so ingrained their life they have to play it.

The game for me is split in 2 Low rate and High rate. I see them as two separate games as they are usually fundamentally different to each other. Maybe the issue here is everybody is trying to meld them into one. High rate is usually flash in the pan, instant gratification, money making etc. Is it wrong? No, as long as there are no hidden agendas & the player base knows exactly what they are getting and at what cost.

 

[Omnibus]

Don't expect much to change in 2023, or 2024, or 2025 etc. other than the community continually shrinking.

Players will flock to whatever horror show or not the next server release will be, play 2-6 weeks, realise they weren't able to be one of the top dogs once again, blame the server, and try again on the next one.

Some players will be insistent on becoming a big fish in a small Mir pond so will spend thousands on a server for the advantage. These are the ones more likely to hang around a bit longer than most in a futile attempt to gain some ROI satisfaction.

It doesn't matter in a way what the server owners model is as the most toxic element is the community. Where the hell did internet cafes full of Egyptians commercially gold farming / selling come from in the first place anyway? They are only there because there's a market though - which is a shockingly large percentage of the active playing community.

Then the simple fact new servers / games are always fun for the opening couple of weeks so people will go to the new servers. Then it's just down to the GM to extract as much as they possibly can from the few that are prepared to endlessly contribute. It's a relatively small percentage that are exploited to a high level, and the rest of the user count are just fluffers validating the worth of the few p2w players. GMs often know if they don't monetise their own server shamelessly, it will only be other players which benefit the most (from the GMs work) instead of them.

The fact is the majority of server owners are, and will continue to be blood sucking, predatory opportunists. LOMCN ought to take some responsibility for what they promote, but they don't care - just like the players don't really either because every server is disposable. Move on to the next pop up.

So what I would like to hope I see in 2023 and beyond is a change in player expectations from servers. A demand for a plan of longevity and to not be treated like a tourist walking round a souk by GMs. For future servers to consider a subscription based model of sorts rather than straight up pay2win - but I don't expect that to happen, as if it isn't the GMs there are plenty of parasites in this stinking community always looking for their next lucrative opportunity.

We have all suffered from Mir and many of us are stuck in the past either it lol

Sometimes I wish I could see certain former users post because their posts are amusing like on Euro, such as wannabes who couldn't keep accounts for long.

I want Lomcn to promote servers and see them be long term servers, not some Mir server that launches and goes.

 

[Tom27]

The price of 1000 Gamegold will be 15 MATIC - about £9.6 at time of this post so roughly 1p = 1gg as ive always done on my servers.
We won't constantly adjust the price it costs in MATIC unless there is a dramatic change. If you convert there and then you might benefit you might not.
I mean lets face it whatever money you had in your bank account last year is now worth 10% less now anyway cause of inflation so the ups and downs are everywhere in a global economy.

I like crypto and I think it's got application, but have you thought about using a stable coin?

My point would be that the value of 1 Matic swings quite violently in even short periods of time, pegging 1GG to 1P will be almost impossible unless you are constantly adjusting shop price.

MATIC swings in an average range of around 20% a week, it's done 16,000% increases in value as well as 90% reductions in value. Even very recently its done 45% moves in a day.

You might end up in a situation where either people don't participating in buying GG because the price of MATIC is unreliable, or you're going to spend your time constantly adjusting shop prices or losing out on revenue.

Obviously everyone has their own tolerance for risks and I'm sure this is one you and the team have identified and worked on mitigations. Either way I'll be interested in how this actually works in practice for a Mir server.

 

[Hercules]

We have all suffered from Mir and many of us are stuck in the past either it lol

Sometimes I wish I could see certain former users post because their posts are amusing like on Euro, such as wannabes who couldn't keep accounts for long.

I want Lomcn to promote servers and see them be long term servers, not some Mir server that launches and goes.

Jev and Val are running the LoMCN server, this is a good idea for many folk to enjoy a base to play as a community. Not sure on their overall goal yet? But if that were to never close then that’s a good place to go

 

[syke]

This is true.

I see above some funny points across the thread but I don’t think it will get resolved. Mir will die and those with £££ or wanting £££ will be those who stay.

Dan going on about Apoc like he did nothing wrong, the players leaving that/charge back that happened was the craziest **** ever. Shows how bad the server was. The GM’s had a rolling gambling system to get stats on items and did not know the prices. Pricks made loads of cash and vanished completely. Discord showed some messages when people started charging back. Funny that loss of ££ made them talk after months. And this ain’t “Winnie the poo facts” from me. It’s what myself and plenty of players see.

Is crypto safer? “It’s the future of gaming, big companies use it” Yeah but like **** will i be buying crypto and investing… into a server which some guy can say “I’m busy with my family” or close it the next day after I just bought items/a char.

“It’s to protect GM’s” … no protection for players? Except a **** coin. Also Bon has had plenty of corrupt claims against him so that’s looks great.

Unfortunately most of those who make servers now days do it for cash. And idiots pay. It won’t change until it maybe dies fully.

Also: I’d be interested to see how many servers in last 5 years some have made:

X: 4 servers in last 5 years
Y: 1 server in last 5 years
A: 12 servers in last 5 years.

It shows who’s pumping them out to players too.

 

[ipwnu]

People can argue and defend this **** all they want it’s the exact reason many have turned their back on mir as a whole.

On apoc I had a full store of nice kit that I couldn’t afford to 3slot as it was always a massive massive gold sink. Alternative was throw up to 20-30quid into each item to potentially get 3 slots or be left with an item that was still worth fk all.

Fact is the game just isn’t worth it anymore, game stores are set up to be op so you have to donate or you stand literally 0 chance, trying to fight someone with 20% more stats than you from stupid torches / mounts or paying 2.50 an hour for exp pots to keep up. Got gms selling items (we know it happens and the gms do as well it’s an open secret) People paying levellers in third world countries and buying items for rl cash.

For a normal player it’s just a wash, got Arabs going around 1 hitting everyone in op kit they have bought after paying people slave wages to level them.

Crypto is literally a way for gms to avoid recalls when they close a server 2-3 months in when they had there fill / ANOTHER cash grab so they can also capitalise on the in game trades as well as selling items behind the scenes / having an op gg shop.

How much is the fees on matic ? Say I buy an item for a 10er off bob, Ben takes his 5-10% then he has to sell the matic for pounds again, how much altogether actually gets sucked into fees.

 

[NightScare]

This thread was great.

 

[Seanofsmeg]

If you want great servers think going need to treat server owners better.

I think at this point being a GM in this times would be terrifying.

Work for months and when server comes online if it's not AAA quality that pleases all audience with zero downtime you get called all the names of the day and people asking for your server to get taken down and banned from future advertisements.

Money isn't great for most people but take the risk of operating server hoping for even a few small donations to find they are later recalled and your left with additional charges and while your fighting the disputes you have zero time to work on the server and your will to work on it goes too.

You go to work and server goes offline? Down for 4 to 5 hours on launch? Server is shyte. Why was this trash allowed on lomcn?


You want good servers with new features need developers who are willing to take risks but nobody's going to take risks to face the amount of toxicity you get if it goes wrong.

You need that person who has never released a server before but really really wants to to give it a try and know even if it's quite basic they won't get absolutely flame bombed.

 

[Bon]

I like crypto and I think it's got application, but have you thought about using a stable coin?

My point would be that the value of 1 Matic swings quite violently in even short periods of time, pegging 1GG to 1P will be almost impossible unless you are constantly adjusting shop price.

MATIC swings in an average range of around 20% a week, it's done 16,000% increases in value as well as 90% reductions in value. Even very recently its done 45% moves in a day.

You might end up in a situation where either people don't participating in buying GG because the price of MATIC is unreliable, or you're going to spend your time constantly adjusting shop prices or losing out on revenue.

Obviously everyone has their own tolerance for risks and I'm sure this is one you and the team have identified and worked on mitigations. Either way I'll be interested in how this actually works in practice for a Mir server.

Think at this point stable coins and extra options just confuses a community that’s still very new and uneducated to crypto. I mean you’ve read some of the posts on here by people with such false and ridiculous claims.

Stable coins get complicated because if you have USDT, you could have it on multiple networks like etherum polygon solana avalanche etc, and depending on the network you need that coin also for fees.

So someone might transfer 1000 USDT to their wallet on ETH network and it’s stuck because they won’t be able to transfer as they’ll have no ETH for gas fees. Obviously it ain’t stuck as you can then convert USDT, but ETH and you’re done. But becomes complicated.

That’s why we wanted a token on its own network with low fees and MATIC was a good fit for us. Eth fees are just too high altho would have preferred that

 

[syke]

If you want great servers think going need to treat server owners better.

I think at this point being a GM in this times would be terrifying.

Work for months and when server comes online if it's not AAA quality that pleases all audience with zero downtime you get called all the names of the day and people asking for your server to get taken down and banned from future advertisements.

Money isn't great for most people but take the risk of operating server hoping for even a few small donations to find they are later recalled and your left with additional charges and while your fighting the disputes you have zero time to work on the server and your will to work on it goes too.

You go to work and server goes offline? Down for 4 to 5 hours on launch? Server is shyte. Why was this trash allowed on lomcn?


You want good servers with new features need developers who are willing to take risks but nobody's going to take risks to face the amount of toxicity you get if it goes wrong.

You need that person who has never released a server before but really really wants to to give it a try and know even if it's quite basic they won't get absolutely flame bombed.

I get what your saying but it’s a double sided coin.

As a player you get promised certain things and it’s changed in a whim, GM’s selling GG privately for discounted prices in discord chat.

GM’s not knowing how much their own GG costs.

GM selling kit/lvls to players behind closed doors.

GM taking £ of donations with promise of updates and future but then vanishes. Yes ok they have a life etc. then don’t make that promise. Don’t say it will be X and create Y. Advertise as Y from start.

Bottom line is no GM is making a server out of goodness of their heart. They are doing it to make money.

 

[JohnBarny]

Ship has sailed long ago, Win hit the nail on the head with some of his comments.

 

[Bon]

I get what your saying but it’s a double sided coin.

As a player you get promised certain things and it’s changed in a whim, GM’s selling GG privately for discounted prices in discord chat.

GM’s not knowing how much their own GG costs.

GM selling kit/lvls to players behind closed doors.

GM taking £ of donations with promise of updates and future but then vanishes. Yes ok they have a life etc. then don’t make that promise. Don’t say it will be X and create Y. Advertise as Y from start.

Bottom line is no GM is making a server out of goodness of their heart. They are doing it to make money.

Your view is jadded... so your saying a server creator should spend all those hours, weeks, months of their own time for what....? what do they get in return?
I tell you what they get, they get people like you bad mouthing them on forums and discord. You call them corrupt, you call them all sorts of names, you demand quality akin to that of AAA game studio, you cry and bitch if they get something wrong and have to correct it.
Perhaps if the community was different, the game shops would be different. Back in the day when private servers first came out people did it for the love of the game to show their ideas etc.. but there was also a much lower expectation from the community. Nowadays if you dont have huge features and new content your called trash and laughed at.

The % split between doing it for the love and doing it for money may be different for every creator, but trust they'll all have a % in that money section. Look at Win being all high and mighty saying he has no gameshop yet he has a £9.99 subscription that gives a huge advantage over anyone that doesn't. Its the same thing as a gameshop/microtransactions, its still p2w. HES STILL DOING IT FOR THE MONEY (before he comes back and says he aint, he just does it for fees etc, its completely bullshit. If that was the case he'd post the exact cost of running the game, put a donate button, and block all donations once that bar was filled. Could even cap it at 6 months payment so you have money in hand).
There are pros and cons to both... but there is a reason why subscriptions don't appear in any games any more.

Games are a business, they have always been a business. Its just that over the years with evolving technology the monetization platform has adapted with it. I don't really agree with how games have become so predatory and it really has ruined the industry but it is what it is, hopefully at some point it changes again but with the amount of money they make it'll never change. At the end of the day its the PLAYERS that fuel it and its the PLAYERS that allow it to happen.

I also don't see it changing anytime soon as the youth of today are raised on this new concept that paying for stuff ingame is totally fine and acceptable. Most kids these days have iPads in their hands from the age of 3+ and they ask their parents to buy the cute little fury and they do it cause it shuts up them, entertains them, and its a win win all round.

 

[syke]

Bon the claims I have stated are not against a person exactly. But if the shoe fits. I mean your squeaky clean and never had anyone accuse you of being corrupt

Many are not “claims” I have seen discord screenshots straight up from servers. 3gena for example was selling GG and various prices/deals to people through discord DM’s.

Many are doing it just for cash and that reason straight. The players will pay the cash and it will go round and round.

Also to state “game is a business” and then moan that it’s not GM fault if they are busy with family/at work… then don’t run it as a business. That’s not how it works

No GM Is making a server other than to make money. And players will pay it. This thread won’t really change it

 

[eternalpain]

No one makes servers without the intention of making some money from it . Putting up with this community for free is something only someone with a screw loose would do

 

[Lose]

Read through the whole thread and thought I would add my 2 cents.

1) A lot about P2W and corruption blah blah, sorry but I can name 5 games from the top of my head that are heavily p2w and boast very good user counts and longevity. Middle ground is always OK, as a player I'm not even against GG shops, but things should be obtainable (reasonably) playing too, please not the word reasonably

2) Chargebacks, just stop using PayPal You have stripe, and a vast amount of other payment methods that make charging back much more difficult

3) Please stop using the word crypto if you have no idea what it is, I swear Mir is full of 40 year old karen's. Ben made a server where you can donate via crypto, how does that even ruin the game. It can't be charged back, if you don't know how to use crypto. The internet is your friend.

4) The last point, nobody has really mentioned is the lack of collaboration from GM's on here. You all punch out servers regularly, ofc most people are just going to migrate to the shiny new server. If you want a server that has a sustained UC, stop giving them choice? All these player complaints about lack of content etc could easily be solved if you could put some greed aside, make a server where you have a few GM's and share the work load. But what happens is a server will come out, then 2 months later another one will...

I don't subscribe to the belief that players or GM are solely responsible for the sorry state of this game, it's a collective issue. The players are very fickle and cry about everything but it's also very clear some servers (Apoc V2) were released accepting that they wouldn't last long, so what was the best way to earn as much money as possible. Again, GM's should make money from their servers, it requires work and time. However the decisions you're making in the short term, completely shafts the longevity of your own servers. For what it's worth Win server although not perfect, and was not as fun as perhaps Ben or Gena's servers, at least the guy tried to change something using a subscription based service.

Plus this community is toxic, half these guys can't put their points across without an insult...

Your view is jadded... so your saying a server creator should spend all those hours, weeks, months of their own time for what....? what do they get in return?
I tell you what they get, they get people like you bad mouthing them on forums and discord. You call them corrupt, you call them all sorts of names, you demand quality akin to that of AAA game studio, you cry and bitch if they get something wrong and have to correct it.
Perhaps if the community was different, the game shops would be different. Back in the day when private servers first came out people did it for the love of the game to show their ideas etc.. but there was also a much lower expectation from the community. Nowadays if you dont have huge features and new content your called trash and laughed at.

The % split between doing it for the love and doing it for money may be different for every creator, but trust they'll all have a % in that money section. Look at Win being all high and mighty saying he has no gameshop yet he has a £9.99 subscription that gives a huge advantage over anyone that doesn't. Its the same thing as a gameshop/microtransactions, its still p2w. HES STILL DOING IT FOR THE MONEY (before he comes back and says he aint, he just does it for fees etc, its completely bullshit. If that was the case he'd post the exact cost of running the game, put a donate button, and block all donations once that bar was filled. Could even cap it at 6 months payment so you have money in hand).
There are pros and cons to both... but there is a reason why subscriptions don't appear in any games any more.

Games are a business, they have always been a business. Its just that over the years with evolving technology the monetization platform has adapted with it. I don't really agree with how games have become so predatory and it really has ruined the industry but it is what it is, hopefully at some point it changes again but with the amount of money they make it'll never change. At the end of the day its the PLAYERS that fuel it and its the PLAYERS that allow it to happen.

I also don't see it changing anytime soon as the youth of today are raised on this new concept that paying for stuff ingame is totally fine and acceptable. Most kids these days have iPads in their hands from the age of 3+ and they ask their parents to buy the cute little fury and they do it cause it shuts up them, entertains them, and its a win win all round.

I've openly told everyone running costs and how I intended on retaining funds for long-term hosting and external development costs (LCD etc).

If we was in it for the money, we would be running on around 1p per hour for the time we've put into the server. Mir2 is a hobby for us, not a business. If I wanted to do this for a business, I would just get a better job.. However if people wish to do this as a source of income, they are stupid or desperate.

Also good to see you have no clue about our server, thinking the 25% VIP EXP bonus is so essential given how a Newbie obtains 250% catch-up upon starting the server and we have LEVEL CAPS to prevent access gaps between players.

But you are free to your opinion, no matter how stupid it makes you appear. I will let my players make the decision if we are P2W as it's them, who support the server and have the true opinion. Your players have already given you some great feedback on your systems and 'Business' plan.

Our 'Business' stemmed from a group of friends wanting a corrupt free server, so we burned hundreds of hours into something that we all enjoy.

Good luck with your Business.

 

[eternalpain]

However if people wish to do this as a source of income, they are stupid or desperate.

You are aware that some servers, even the small ones can make thousands a month right?

 

[LightBringer]

Rumours and speculation were my biggest bug bear.

Our team got accused of making items for players etc with literally no evidence: so then you have to fire fight to keep your reputation.

Players creating this extra work don't realise it then takes away from server development, which they will then judge you for not doing.
-----------‐-----------------------‐----------
Despite what's been mentioned I still can't wait to get my server out there for everyone, it's a massive shift from the norm, and it'll also either have a very limited GS or potentially looking at a sub option only (we haven't discussed this as a team)

Ultimately I'd always do it for free, but if the server brings some money in, I reinvest it in coders who can put systems in, in days or weeks, rather than my much slower speed.

-----------‐---------------------‐----------

One final thing on crypto, if you buy it there n then and straight away flip it to gg, isn't it only Bon taking the risks accepting crypto with the fluctuations of value?

 

[Belle]

One final thing on crypto, if you buy it there n then and straight away flip it to gg, isn't it only Bon taking the risks accepting crypto with the fluctuations of value?

He could lose the lot yeah. Players arnt at risk at all.