Ive been thinking it about it recently, and if done right i do believe it could be fun.
Has anyone else ever thought about this, or am i the only one.
Has anyone else ever thought about this, or am i the only one.
Mir with Permadeath
- Thread starter NightScare
- Start date
yes id have to agree, it would have to be a HR it just wouldn't work on a euro type server, imagine spending a month getting level 40, lagging out and your months gone.
I think if you could make progression quick, it could work, maybe.
I am considering reworking Ayndril my PVP server with a Perma death twist, just trying to gauge some reactions.
Wondering if people would just instantly write it off, or try it.
- Apr 16, 2007
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They'd have to be some sort of reason to want to PvP and then die and not just think, ffs I've got to spend more time leveling and gear grinding to PvP again.
Every player kill could be recorded to the account, not character. Each kill gives X ammount of points. These points allow you to equip better armour and weapons. These weapons and armours having X ammount of PK points to be able to use btw.
Theres a reason to want to PvP to have better armour and weapons to do more damage :P
Every player kill could be recorded to the account, not character. Each kill gives X ammount of points. These points allow you to equip better armour and weapons. These weapons and armours having X ammount of PK points to be able to use btw.
Theres a reason to want to PvP to have better armour and weapons to do more damage :P
Imagine spending a month getting level 600, lagging out and your months gone.
Keep going, braniac.
- Apr 16, 2007
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Just make it more focused on total kill's than levels.
This could get abused by making noob's but just make one map, like an arena where everyone goes to fight and get kills. Everywhere else safe.
I dunno really, just thinking of way's it might work :P
This could get abused by making noob's but just make one map, like an arena where everyone goes to fight and get kills. Everywhere else safe.
I dunno really, just thinking of way's it might work :P
In your example you went from one extreme ("euro") to the other (HR). At no point did you mention a level cap. Accept my sincerest apologies won't you.
Like Path of Exile hardcore mode where you die, you lose everything sorta thing?
I've thought of it before like this, though and here are my cons/pros for it:
Perma-death would mean character deleted which means char name also deleted and atm you can't get it back if it's been used once. So, you could just have it so when you die, you keep your 3 rarest items (could be coded in) and you get de-leveled to a certain level, and you have to work your way back up the ladder. Perhaps you could code it in so if a Boss/Mob gets the kill on you, you keep only 1 of your rarest items and de-leveled as I find that more humiliating AND makes boss's more of a thrill/challenge.
This would work for a super high rate where leveling "feels" easy. It could work. I'm not sure with Mir players current mentality you'd have a stable usercount though, as at the moment if they drop a rare they insta-rage quit, this would probably attract all the hardcore pvpers.
I've thought of it before like this, though and here are my cons/pros for it:
Perma-death would mean character deleted which means char name also deleted and atm you can't get it back if it's been used once. So, you could just have it so when you die, you keep your 3 rarest items (could be coded in) and you get de-leveled to a certain level, and you have to work your way back up the ladder. Perhaps you could code it in so if a Boss/Mob gets the kill on you, you keep only 1 of your rarest items and de-leveled as I find that more humiliating AND makes boss's more of a thrill/challenge.
This would work for a super high rate where leveling "feels" easy. It could work. I'm not sure with Mir players current mentality you'd have a stable usercount though, as at the moment if they drop a rare they insta-rage quit, this would probably attract all the hardcore pvpers.
The line i was going along were
- De-lvled back to 0
- You'd have two types of each item, BOD (Which are alot more common) and none BOD, this means in theory you can have group bosses which drop like 4-5 BOD versions of the top set per drop, as when someone dies the items are taken out of the economy.
- Capped at level 100, probably takes like 4-5hours to get to 100? once level 100, can re-level back to 80 for points, Level 80-100 would be were 4 hours of the 5hours would be spent.? so the biggest time sink area
- Points used for Buying levels 0-70 when you die, And certain BOD items
- All BOD items can be traded for the points aswel, so even if you don't get an item you can use you get some points towards your next death
- Gold would be used for buying pots/sunnies/rt/Upgrades Orbs and other item upgrades PA/MA/SA/PD/MD/Chaos/Blind ect....i'd make stuff expensive so gold is hard to get ect, wouldnt work if gold was easy easy.
- PVP points would be an outpost every 2hours, for a rolling x2 Exp boost lasts 5minutes, but costs 100k or something to use
- Daily SW were you get a rolling X3 exp for 15minutes, bust costs like 500k to use.
- I'd have to like 2 OKS type of bosses which would drop the Top End set BOD like 6-8 times per kill, and a guaranteed none BOD item.
The general feel of the game would be easy come, easy go, except for the none BOD sets, which then means you have a chance to drop it on death anyway. But you could say spend 3 days on ur char, have Best BOD item set, be level 100 with +15 On each item, and you'd be pretty unstoppable... but if you die you could have enough points from farming constantly to instantly buy back to level 70, it would take you an hour or two to get level 70 legendary set, and then you could be back in the pvp action, but obviously you wouldnt be as good as before...
I would also make it very PVE Focus'ed for gear ect. meaning you'd have to group up to kill the bosses for any chance of items 70+ items increasing competition for them bosses and risk/reward factor.
It would have to be balanced carefully, but personally i think it could be refreshing....
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Sounds pretty good, only thing I wouldn't out in is the gauranteed non-BOD item. Never add that, it has to be a chance only and a rare on at that, as these items are what makes End-game. If it was a gauranteed LOWER tier non-bod item, I'd agree, but save the best of the best of the best items for super rare chance drops.
I like the points idea so you can get back up really easily. I'd also like it if you made it so each outpost/SW STACKS the amount of times you can use those exp boosts. So If I won 5 outposts and 2 sabuks, I'd have 5 X2's and 2 X3's to use, but I can use them any time I want and ofc the price for this is as you say, cash to activate it. I think you may need to implement other small rewards for outposts and a semi-good reward for Sabuk so people don't just get bored of fighting over exp buffs. (BOD items perhaps)
Sounds like it'll be a lot of fun at least.
I like the points idea so you can get back up really easily. I'd also like it if you made it so each outpost/SW STACKS the amount of times you can use those exp boosts. So If I won 5 outposts and 2 sabuks, I'd have 5 X2's and 2 X3's to use, but I can use them any time I want and ofc the price for this is as you say, cash to activate it. I think you may need to implement other small rewards for outposts and a semi-good reward for Sabuk so people don't just get bored of fighting over exp buffs. (BOD items perhaps)
Sounds like it'll be a lot of fun at least.
or make it so everyone starts with same lvl same kit and u also start off red say 10k pk points no gaurds or archers to kill u so if u die u drop all ur kit and the kit items can be exchanged for pvp points and make one cave where people can go to hunt for items(ie basic items with no pvp point value) so they can pk again and redeem kit off others to earn points
It would work, but just need to make it so it's not too difficult to get to a decent level and having bosses that are OP would ruin it too.
Imagine having a really hard boss, people getting a group of about 15+ to go kill it, and all get wiped out lol.
Imagine having a really hard boss, people getting a group of about 15+ to go kill it, and all get wiped out lol.
The exp buffs would also be useable the whole time u held the outpost/sw
So if you held sabuk for example you could constantlly press key 7 to recieve a 10minute exp x 3 buff but costs 500k gold, to be like 3mill for a whole hour. (Bear in mind you wouldnt be running around with 10bill in your bag, more like 2-3mill and gold would be needed for Pots/Sunnies/RTS/Orbs/Item Upgrades/Benes/KR Teles to solo bosses)
The BOD idea, is that every item has a BOD counterpart, Which are common as muck, and the Rare "Legendary sets, every 10 levels* would also have a None BOD version , but they would be rare....
E,g HeavenswordBOD would be 1/5 off a OKS type boss, while HeavenswordNoneBOD would be 1/150 .. so even if you turn up and kill it you will atleast have the best tier item in the drop, even if it is just a couple of BOD versions. So you never go away feeling empty handed as such.
I'd have to disagree with the Uber bosses, but if they were insanly hard, the reward would be stupidly good, like 6-7 None BOD high level legendary items, but obviously it would have to have a 6-12 hour spawn time to stop the server being flooded.
I also had an idea of having "Souls", which you leveled up and the higher level your soul was the higher level you start at when you die.
I was also considering making the sabuk the only place u dont die and drop/de-level. but unsure as to that atm.
Im just spitting ideas atm...
I like idea of having it rather than going to zero you have bookmarked/souls Possibly a quest to obtain the soul. Difficult one in which you can actually gain 2-3 levels? I wouldnt play if you reset but de-leveling to a bookmarked level would be cool, or even a point system where each time you level the counter resets to 10, giving you 10 deaths before level reset. Then you can get items which increase your point count?
- Apr 28, 2005
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Some of these "hardcore" ideas actually sound quite... Scrubby and carebear to be used in a permadeath environment IMO. I reckon it'd be quite easy to bring permadeath in tbh.
Think about it, currently (in most servers I assume? don't really know anymore) Mir is more character based, than item based it always has been from my experience (on both official and private) anyway. You take a lot of time and pride leveling your character, it's way more important to you than any of your items right? If permadeath was implemented, this would have to be changed.
Lets say you cap the max lvl at 99, and you get very little stat increases per level. Maybe 1 DC and a bit of HP etc per 5 levels. Now, you make most of the top end items in the server usable around the 60-70 level range (which would take about 2 or 3 days to get to), and any items for higher levels than that, aren't TOO superior in comparison to the 60-70 items.
So, top sick items take longer to get, than it takes to get to the level to use them.
When you die, your character is reset to level 1, and ALL your items (equiped and in bag, keep your storage) are dropped on the floor. Think about it. Most people would play in groups (most of the content should be group focused too) so if you die to a boss for example, your group/guild could pick up all your items and you'd get 'em back. Wouldn't be too much of a bitch to get back to the level requirement for them (especially if they boost you up). If you died to PKers, different story obviously, but still if your group mates survive they may be able to save some of your items.
Obviously, if you were hunting solo, you probably wouldn't want to have your best kit equipped so if you die you won't lose it all. When you're with your group trying to down a boss for example, you might feel confident enough to equip (all or some) of your sickest items.
Eventually, people will end up stock piling items in their storage. And even having multiple "high level" (60/70/80) characters ready to go.
I think this could be quite interesting for Mir, as the current game is character based and not item based. In permadeath, this would have to be changed. And items would have to drop on death or it'd just be boring (less reward for PKers, whilst also being more "harsh" on the guy who died).
This general "rule" could make a very fun "hardcore" PvP server.
Think about it, currently (in most servers I assume? don't really know anymore) Mir is more character based, than item based it always has been from my experience (on both official and private) anyway. You take a lot of time and pride leveling your character, it's way more important to you than any of your items right? If permadeath was implemented, this would have to be changed.
Lets say you cap the max lvl at 99, and you get very little stat increases per level. Maybe 1 DC and a bit of HP etc per 5 levels. Now, you make most of the top end items in the server usable around the 60-70 level range (which would take about 2 or 3 days to get to), and any items for higher levels than that, aren't TOO superior in comparison to the 60-70 items.
So, top sick items take longer to get, than it takes to get to the level to use them.
When you die, your character is reset to level 1, and ALL your items (equiped and in bag, keep your storage) are dropped on the floor. Think about it. Most people would play in groups (most of the content should be group focused too) so if you die to a boss for example, your group/guild could pick up all your items and you'd get 'em back. Wouldn't be too much of a bitch to get back to the level requirement for them (especially if they boost you up). If you died to PKers, different story obviously, but still if your group mates survive they may be able to save some of your items.
Obviously, if you were hunting solo, you probably wouldn't want to have your best kit equipped so if you die you won't lose it all. When you're with your group trying to down a boss for example, you might feel confident enough to equip (all or some) of your sickest items.
Eventually, people will end up stock piling items in their storage. And even having multiple "high level" (60/70/80) characters ready to go.
I think this could be quite interesting for Mir, as the current game is character based and not item based. In permadeath, this would have to be changed. And items would have to drop on death or it'd just be boring (less reward for PKers, whilst also being more "harsh" on the guy who died).
This general "rule" could make a very fun "hardcore" PvP server.
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- Feb 21, 2013
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let me chip in, how about Tempdeath instead of Permadeath, let say 6 or 12 or 24h-death or basically some finite duration death. After the set time you would be able to log in on that char again. In meantime you could log onto your other chars on acct.
The Tempdeath duration could differ, in KR could be longer, in town or leveling areas shorter, in rooms with midbosses somewhere in between.
And I would hope that those thinking of permadeath idea already run server where you don't have res-scrolls, where you can't RT in KRs and maybe not even DE in KRs while in midfight, meaning you can't abandon your fight unless you are able to run away. Also should have dura loss on items which can't be stopped by some dura preservation item and item perishing upon dura expiration unless you repair (like on euro in early days)...and that is just for starters - the point of it all being that permadeath should only be thought of when all these things which make game risky and dangerous are already in place and they are found not to be enough...
Then of course some or all those mentioned safeguards could be brought back in so that permadeath wouldn't be threatening you behind every mir corner.
Generally the idea of permadeath only goes well along with a 'finite' game in which you have progression to some end and along which road you can die and have to start again all over... and if you don't die and reach the end, the fanfare sounds and you get thanked for rescuing the kingdom and your name gets written into timeless scrolls and then you get sent to deserved rest in eternity of computer pixels (game end) and can start the quest again.
One problem with permadeath is that pple would keep most of their rare items on some other acct and keep only the necessary wearables on playing acct., meaning that upon char permadeath they wouldn't loose all their items.
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Another thing, perma or temp death could be made to apply to either dying to PK or mobs or mob bosses separately or to all of them (plus maybe differing depending on location like town, KR etc) but there is the danger of death due to lagging out in all of those cases, which rightly shouldn't count, else it would be ridiculous.
In this direction I have been daydreaming about dual or in general multiple mir servers, each in different location, with mir client connecting either simultaneously to all of them or being passed from server to server when the mir client would deem given server as non-responding properly, in time... basically if one server couldn't serve mir client in given time, the client would reroute to second server which then would take over the serving with the upshot that you wouldn't lag out and be disconnected.
In both cases, the passing over to second server or being connected to both servers simultaneously would require the servers passing mir client data to single central database behind them and the two or more streams of given mir client would have to be evaluated and the lagging stream would be dropped or in case of multiple streams none of which would lag out, only the best one would be kept... if you get the rough idea. I only have very rough idea how exactly the mir 'client - server - database' relationship works.
I think all online games might be run like this one day, on 'distributed server network' - multiple servers in different locations (even continental locations like USA, EU, Asia...) with the game client making hops among them upon evaluation which is the fastest at any given time. This evaluation of the ping and overall connection quality to all servers would go on all the time and player could be switched from server to server every five minutes or whatever depending on the evaluation. And of course there would be one central database behind all those servers.
This way the number of players playing the game together would be limited only by the space on the game maps and the mobs available etc. because the load on the server wouldn't be a problem. The server network would distribute connected players to their best advantage which would also coincide with minimizing server load. This way your buddy playing alongside you might be playing different physical server, yet playing with you on the same game map.
It is a different take on the idea of euro mir being run on two servers to spread the server load (when mongchon province was on its own server and the rest of mir on another or some such arrangement), also euro was spreading the server load (or was it because of map overcrowding?) by making second, Phoenix server.
The Tempdeath duration could differ, in KR could be longer, in town or leveling areas shorter, in rooms with midbosses somewhere in between.
And I would hope that those thinking of permadeath idea already run server where you don't have res-scrolls, where you can't RT in KRs and maybe not even DE in KRs while in midfight, meaning you can't abandon your fight unless you are able to run away. Also should have dura loss on items which can't be stopped by some dura preservation item and item perishing upon dura expiration unless you repair (like on euro in early days)...and that is just for starters - the point of it all being that permadeath should only be thought of when all these things which make game risky and dangerous are already in place and they are found not to be enough...
Then of course some or all those mentioned safeguards could be brought back in so that permadeath wouldn't be threatening you behind every mir corner.
Generally the idea of permadeath only goes well along with a 'finite' game in which you have progression to some end and along which road you can die and have to start again all over... and if you don't die and reach the end, the fanfare sounds and you get thanked for rescuing the kingdom and your name gets written into timeless scrolls and then you get sent to deserved rest in eternity of computer pixels (game end) and can start the quest again.
One problem with permadeath is that pple would keep most of their rare items on some other acct and keep only the necessary wearables on playing acct., meaning that upon char permadeath they wouldn't loose all their items.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Another thing, perma or temp death could be made to apply to either dying to PK or mobs or mob bosses separately or to all of them (plus maybe differing depending on location like town, KR etc) but there is the danger of death due to lagging out in all of those cases, which rightly shouldn't count, else it would be ridiculous.
In this direction I have been daydreaming about dual or in general multiple mir servers, each in different location, with mir client connecting either simultaneously to all of them or being passed from server to server when the mir client would deem given server as non-responding properly, in time... basically if one server couldn't serve mir client in given time, the client would reroute to second server which then would take over the serving with the upshot that you wouldn't lag out and be disconnected.
In both cases, the passing over to second server or being connected to both servers simultaneously would require the servers passing mir client data to single central database behind them and the two or more streams of given mir client would have to be evaluated and the lagging stream would be dropped or in case of multiple streams none of which would lag out, only the best one would be kept... if you get the rough idea. I only have very rough idea how exactly the mir 'client - server - database' relationship works.
I think all online games might be run like this one day, on 'distributed server network' - multiple servers in different locations (even continental locations like USA, EU, Asia...) with the game client making hops among them upon evaluation which is the fastest at any given time. This evaluation of the ping and overall connection quality to all servers would go on all the time and player could be switched from server to server every five minutes or whatever depending on the evaluation. And of course there would be one central database behind all those servers.
This way the number of players playing the game together would be limited only by the space on the game maps and the mobs available etc. because the load on the server wouldn't be a problem. The server network would distribute connected players to their best advantage which would also coincide with minimizing server load. This way your buddy playing alongside you might be playing different physical server, yet playing with you on the same game map.
It is a different take on the idea of euro mir being run on two servers to spread the server load (when mongchon province was on its own server and the rest of mir on another or some such arrangement), also euro was spreading the server load (or was it because of map overcrowding?) by making second, Phoenix server.
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