9/11 - proof, America attacking itself.

[Valerii]

money buys everything dude.. for 7million, you wouldnt run a few plains into buildings?? its heartless.. but its human life..

I can say, with full confidence, 100% that I would not kill a human life for all the money in the world. I'm also pretty sure that someone somewhere in the American government has a similar mind set to that of my own.

 

[MiloFoxburr]

I can say, with full confidence, 100% that I would not kill a human life for all the money in the world. I'm also pretty sure that someone somewhere in the American government has a similar mind set to that of my own.

Yeah excatly Martyn your basically saying that everyone who knew about the "true" reasons for 9/11 felt no guilt and had the mindset that its all right to kill innocent people for money there would of been alot of people involed in the opperation one of em would of leaked something.

Not only that the numerous investigations would of revealed the truth No one can say that they were all silenced or all accepted money or whatever to stay quiet. Not every person is like that

 

[Turin]

Very powerful post, I like it.

Sorry, but I don't believe for one second that there wasn't one American involved in attacking themselves that didn't suffer from a guilty conscience, or didn't dislike the idea of killing thousands of people.

Guilty conscience? It isn't a governments position to judge based on conscience and feelings. They have targets to meet, and human life is just subject to its achievement.

Besides if going to war, and having a death toll of over 100k souls doesn't own a guilty conscience, then I don't know what does. They wanted war, they got war - albeit with a few more lives.

At least the Iraqis had a justified reason for the attack, whether it religion or hatred. Money is a very powerful influence, however, the kind of person that would cut off his own trapped leg to reach a gold bar is one who is obsessed, the American government, however much you dislike it, has a lot of intelligent people within it, people that would look to other means before cutting off that leg.

You make it sound like the apposition argument is calling America a dumb brute. It's not.

The calculated move inspired many factors, without which the consequent wars and legislations would not have been possible. Do I have to repost all my previous posts?

I also don't believe that if America did plan it, the holes such as the ones pointed out here would have been covered up as a number one priority, please, if the people who made that story knew Osama shouldn't wear a gold ring, then I’m pretty sure the American government, who would have spent millions of dollars pulling that kind of operation, had the resources to find such information. But Osama wearing one? Human error? Or, the most likely answer that he was using religion as a cover for being a murderous terrorist who only wanted to kill people? Logic hits back.

Osama belongs to the strictest Islamic doctrines known as Wahabism which is founded in Saudi Arabia. His doctrine enlaws the usage of amputation of men for wearing gold and castration for those who don silk. Do you think Osama would make an error when his religion demands otherwise?

I smell a lot of crap here, and I find it pretty offensive that you can make such accusations about such a patriotic country because everyone 'loves' a conspiracy story, for god's sake, thousands of loyal Americans died. And you respect that by claiming that their own government did it? Shame on you.

Well the other accusation is just as offensive, labelism of "Islamic Extremism" of Islamofacism etc. In my opinion the more patriotic a government is, the further they'd be willing to for the interest of their country.

I say again: The benefits of completing and installing a new Iraq/Afghani and in general Middle Eastern regime would greatly benefit American interests in that area of the world.

Discuss,
Turin

ps - This topic is going backwards and forwards, I'm starting to get the feeling most people arn't reading replies properly.

 

[>DMX<]

money buys everything dude.. for 7million, you wouldnt run a few plains into buildings?? its heartless.. but its human life..

Not when id die in the process and the 7m would mean nothing to me..same as the other guy i wouldn't kill anyone for money, taking innocent people's life for a sake of a few quid..na thanks.

 

[Robert]

George Bush didnt die in the process, why would you?

 

[Valerii]

Very powerful post, I like it.



Guilty conscience? It isn't a governments position to judge based on conscience and feelings. They have targets to meet, and human life is just subject to its achievement.

Besides if going to war, and having a death toll of over 100k souls doesn't own a guilty conscience, then I don't know what does. They wanted war, they got war - albeit with a few more lives.



You make it sound like the apposition argument is calling America a dumb brute. It's not.

The calculated move inspired many factors, without which the consequent wars and legislations would not have been possible. Do I have to repost all my previous posts?



Osama belongs to the strictest Islamic doctrines known as Wahabism which is founded in Saudi Arabia. His doctrine enlaws the usage of amputation of men for wearing gold and castration for those who don silk. Do you think Osama would make an error when his religion demands otherwise?



Well the other accusation is just as offensive, labelism of "Islamic Extremism" of Islamofacism etc. In my opinion the more patriotic a government is, the further they'd be willing to for the interest of their country.

I say again: The benefits of completing and installing a new Iraq/Afghani and in general Middle Eastern regime would greatly benefit American interests in that area of the world.

Discuss,
Turin

ps - This topic is going backwards and forwards, I'm starting to get the feeling most people arn't reading replies properly.

Please, spare me. You seriously think that every government employee that was involved in this conspiracy would prioritise their job over their own conscience? I thought more of you than that.

There's a difference between killing your enemies and killing yourself, which I think is where you fall short in your argument. I said I wouldn't kill for money, but I would kill someone if I hated them enough. I hope you can grasp the difference between that. America killing Iraq and America killing America are two very different things. Its common sense and I think you're starting to lack it with your factual replies. Sure, it may well be fact, but fact doesn't dictate human reality, decision does.

I don’t care what fraction of some religious group Osama is part of, if you knew this, the government knew this. And they don't hire the biggest brains in the world to make a catastrophic ****-up like the one displayed in this "conspiracy".

And for the record, I believe if Osama is capable of killing thousands of people and not facing the reality of it. I'd imagine he's very capable of defying his own religion, I think he's a bit of a "rebel" when it comes to the rules mate, in case you haven't noticed .

Here’s a fun fact for you: there are many, many benefits to be had from killing people. There are also benefits from raping, stealing, and killing your own family.

Many people do it, but the people that don’t… do well in life, they abide by the rules and it pays off for them, they might go to college, might go to university, heck… they might even be lucky enough to work high up for the American government and make decisions that effect the lives of their citizens. But then they obviously all turn evil, and want to kill lots of their own people, and destroy buildings, destroy families etc. That’s right, is it not?

 

[Pottsy]

Check this out, u might find it pretty amazing tbh lol

People say that the bombing were predicted with the american bills.....u know the twin towers right?...

and u ever wonder where they got the white house theory from?.....

Dunno whether or not to believe it lol but hey.....

 

[Valerii]

Check this out, u might find it pretty amazing tbh lol

People say that the bombing were predicted with the american bills.....u know the twin towers right?...

and u ever wonder where they got the white house theory from?.....

Dunno whether or not to believe it lol but hey.....

*opens his DIYCK*

(Do it yourself conspiracy kit)

If you add 2 + 2 it makes 4, and another 2 is 6. So that's 3 2's, which could potentially make 6. If that's 3 6's, that makes it 666. 2 is linked with 666, George Bush once said "too" and "to" in a public speech, which if you say them out loud, sound like "two" (2). George bush is linked with 666, 666 is referred to as the devil. George Bush is the devil.

 

[Vannaroth]

money buys everything dude.. for 7million, you wouldnt run a few plains into buildings?? its heartless.. but its human life..

7 million is peanuts to the government.

 

[Vannaroth]

*opens his DIYCK*

(Do it yourself conspiracy kit)

If you add 2 + 2 it makes 4, and another 2 is 6. So that's 3 2's, which could potentially make 6. If that's 3 6's, that makes it 666. 2 is linked with 666, George Bush once said "too" and "to" in a public speech, which if you say them out loud, sound like "two" (2). George bush is linked with 666, 666 is referred to as the devil. George Bush is the devil.

Not only that, but if you divide 666 by 2, and then times the answer by 2, you get 666 again.

omg 666, 666, thats enough 666 for both blair AND bush

 

[Eskimo]

Laughing out loud. =]

 

[Martyn]

you guys talk **** tbh... lol wouldnt kill any one for 7million? heck i'd shoot u all for less.. well abit more :P money makes the world go round maybe you kids to young to know this? when i was young i didnt care for money.. now moneys everything.. n every ****ers trynna take it from ya.. banks, taxs, council etc.. all *******s..

annoying emails - Unsubcriped.. lol

 

[Biohazard]

Consider.
But for you I'm afraid, anything that doesn't support your view is liberal bs right?

Well since I am a right winged conservative....Ummmm......Yeah - nice one sherlock. -_-

Did you realise that practically all the 9/11 documentries are created by Americans? Hmm...

Well last time I checked, attacks were in the US. So I don't really expect anyone else to write them.

money buys everything dude.. for 7million, you wouldnt run a few plains into buildings?? its heartless.. but its human life..

I would't do it for trillions of dollars, why? Because you are dead, and money doesn't really help that, now does it?

 

[Spria]

mmm, it seems every1 who is saying that america attacked itself (myself included) has actually watched them videos.

every1 whos saying that its all bull**** hasnt.

i know ur probly just gunna say why should we watch this **** but why dont u watch it.

even if u find every flaw in it u can then post bk, just at least watch it and try see our points

 

[Valerii]

you guys talk **** tbh... lol wouldnt kill any one for 7million? heck i'd shoot u all for less.. well abit more :P money makes the world go round maybe you kids to young to know this? when i was young i didnt care for money.. now moneys everything.. n every ****ers trynna take it from ya.. banks, taxs, council etc.. all *******s..

annoying emails - Unsubcriped.. lol

No, I would consider myself a fairly mature male. If you're asking if I’m aware of the difference between material value and life, then yes, I'm aware. Just remember who makes the money, and who needs to be here for money to work .

 

[Vannaroth]

mmm, it seems every1 who is saying that america attacked itself (myself included) has actually watched them videos.

every1 whos saying that its all bull**** hasnt.

i know ur probly just gunna say why should we watch this **** but why dont u watch it.

even if u find every flaw in it u can then post bk, just at least watch it and try see our points

But I'm guessing all those who believed the video were already anti-government hippies.

The ones who havnt watched the videos are the ones coming up with all the arguments, the ones who have seen them just say ''watch the video.'' You know what? We dont wait to watch the videos, because they are simply too stupid.

You can believe every peace of anti-government propaganda you see, but logic prevails. Why would a government attack its own country WHILE murdernig its own people in the process? Why would EVERY SINGLE member of the government keep their mouth shut? Everything from a piece of debris falling from an exploding building to the New World Order.. its all just too unlikely.

 

[Valerii]

mmm, it seems every1 who is saying that america attacked itself (myself included) has actually watched them videos.

every1 whos saying that its all bull**** hasnt.

i know ur probly just gunna say why should we watch this **** but why dont u watch it.

even if u find every flaw in it u can then post bk, just at least watch it and try see our points

I saw a video in school once, which was an anti-conspiracy video, aimed to direct the youth of today out of following stupid conspiracy projects which people chuck out on a daily basis, and I'm not joking, there is literally a conspiracy theory for almost everything.

The way that they did it was to use conspiracy against us, by projecting it directly on us. They showed us a very, very, very convincing film telling us how we had evolved from a single cell organism, but instead of going through the transition of a chimp, we actually evolved from a giraffe.

Do you know why we didn't get brainwashed by the video? Because it's stupid, because common sense prevails, because following your gut WORKS and because conspiracy theories are what they are, and very very few ever turn out to be true, or even close to true, or even fully proven.

Heck, I don’t really care if you want to walk around with your banner, telling everyone that America killed America, and how we never landed on the moon, and how aliens exist on this planet kept in a secret military base called Area 51. If I can see it, and understand it, I’ll believe it.

If some anti-everything bloke who’s got nothing better to do than to make up stories wants to spend the rest of his life telling everyone how they’ve been duped, good for him. But as for me, I’m just going to sit back, let the world go round, have a good life, and not worry. Because that’s what life for me is about, enjoying it, not picking holes in everything because you’ve got nothing better to do.

 

[Spria]

meh i cant make u watch the video, if i could i would just so ud shut up

but atm u cant form a proper arguement, u havnt seen both side of it

as for me personally, ppl agruing over this saying that america didnt do it.
every1 may as well ignore ur posts if u havnt watched it.

its 2 and a half hours maybe, watch it believe what u believe at the end of it then post what u think, then im sure the other ppl who have watched the video will then, be willing to take what u have to say into consideration

*please note i may not be the best person to put this agruement forward as my english skills are crap i just thought it needed saying*

 

[Vannaroth]

meh i cant make u watch the video, if i could i would just so ud shut up

but atm u cant form a proper arguement, u havnt seen both side of it

as for me personally, ppl agruing over this saying that america didnt do it.
every1 may as well ignore ur posts

its 2 and a half hours maybe, watch it believe what u believe at the end of it then post what u think, then im sure the other ppl who have watched the video will then, be willing to take what u have to say into consideration

Oh here we go again, ''watch the video, watch the video, blah blah blah''. No, I will not watch the video, I have seen 20 minutes of it and I have never seen so much farce crammed into such a short space of time. It is stupid, you are stupid, all those who believe it are stupid.

Simple.

 

[Turin]

Addressed to Valerii:

Don't worry, my post was a manifestation of the apposing argument, not my own personal belief, so feel free to critisize it without appologising but...

The point is that you counter-argument is mainly based on the emotive behind the attack, which in essense is baseless. I cannot say (and therefore nor can you) whether or not the conscience of people taking part in this attack were affected. Even then, that was not the context of my reply.

Think of it as a way of hiding in plain sight, the diagram below will illustrate my point clearly.

American Sponsor => Al Qaida Network => Lack of Intervention => Current Stance

In that effect, America allowed itself to be attacked; but the argument from the video tries to go further in saying that America adminstered the attacks themselves.

If I blend the two arguments, my personal belief would be that the whole thing is being used (orchestrated) in the hands of the US Government.

I said earlier:

One of the twelve factors in a Just War, is that the end damage has to be in proportion to the cause of the war, and in retrospect, the possibilities of damage if the war had not happened. In this case, it is a matter of loss of human life. The impact of 3000 deaths through a terror attack gave the government the pathos required to innitiate a war, in an otherwise very liberal society. The Post 9/11 shift towards the right was the immediate reflexive action taken by Western society as a whole.

The loss of live justifies the imminent devastation the war will cause.

I've already mentioned the possible aim of causing enough damage and tragic loss of human life to inspire a hatred of terrorism and a full justification of war in Afghanistan under the guise of war against Terror. I will make clearer however that for this condition to be met, the qualities of the attack had to be of sorts magnificent, in that it would have a lasting impact. The plane I believe was a classic symbolism of a hijacked society, something different from the cliche bombing, whilst the bombs themselves would have simply ensured the full destructive damage required was accomplished.

The US Govt. actually had to be detached from the event for it to take effect. If the Govt. for example, had taken an active role (i.e. implied anyting diplomatic, like another country - say Iraq - firing a missile) they would have taken the issue onto a level that could not have justified within the bounds of a Just War. Do you get where I am going with this?

In short, I acknowledge both views and ask of everyone to keep an open mind, thats all (+ I am playing the Devil's Advocate here)

---

Well since I am a right winged conservative....Ummmm......Yeah - nice one sherlock. -_-

Alright Mr. [Blatant] Bias.

Well last time I checked, attacks were in the US. So I don't really expect anyone else to write them.

That was in reply to:

No one in the United States believes this bullsh!t, you come here and say this sh!t, and I can guarantee you'll get the sh!t beat out of you.

Apparently they do... see? Doesn't take a Sherlock to find the connection

---

This isn't JUST about money guys. Listen, if America wants to insure its dominance in the Middle East, it can't have rogue states running around doing hell knows what with the resources they have. They need to secure their interests (be it oil, diplomacy or milatary logistics) and there's no point pointing the finger at US for this - any other country would do the same.

Dicsuss,
Turin

ps - very hasty reply, sorry if I missed anything.