Pretty speechless if i'm honest.

[Chalace]

...

As always, any progress is good progress. Your efforts are always appreciated.

Guess I should try and dig out the code I've added.

--

Edit: Not sure if the sound fix was added to GitHub, might be worth checking while it's being updated.

 

[mir2pion]

did someone say they had a previously made a post suggesting what shortcut keys to use ?

Was me, but can't find it now.

Anyway, when looking for it, I noted Far saying Z/X keys select previous/next tile when building up objects from libraries. It doesn't work for me now, but would be good if it worked (maybe I don't know how it is supposed to work - select a tile and in map view pressing X changes the tile to the next one on the mouse tip?). For now I consider those two keys taken by these commands, that is unless those should be taken by selection options, to make grasp commands use C & V (as is customary in windows), and subsequent keys in that row, since it looks we should have more cut/paste options now.

Undo/Redo should also be easily accessible, say ` & 1 (the first two keys on numbers row where 1 would Redo).

F keys should be for the existing tabs (or for the floating panels if you make those). The two tabs, Object & Tiles I would put on letters O & T (those are not as intensively accessed)

F1 WemadeMir2
F2 ShandaMir2
F3 WemadeMir3
F4 Map

O Objects
T Tiles
G Grid

F5 Show Front image
F6 Show Middle image
F7 Show Back image
F8 Show Top image (optimistically reserved for a second front layer)

F9 Show Cell Info 1 (Showing only the top four lines, coordinates & the three kinds of libraries, rest in Cell Info 2)
F10 Show Front tag
F11 Show Middle tag
F12 Show Top tag (reserved)

` Undo
1 Redo
2 Place Front image
3 Place Middle image
4 Place Back image
5 Place Objects
6 Clear Front image
7 Clear Middle image
8 Clear Back image
9 Clear all images
0 Brush Mir2 Big Tiles
- Brush Mir3 Big Tiles
= Brush Small Tiles

Rest of the items from the Editor Layer menu are the six Limit operations (place & clear) and the two Grasp methods. I wonder if the Limit operations could be on numerical pad numbers, not sure about its coupling to the horizontal numbers row. Grasp methods could occupy bottom row, C to / keys.

If we get scrollbar on map view, I'd decommission WASD keys to make them free for hot keys and activate the standard arrow keys. If for example limits couldn't be hot keyed on numpad, then they could be put on qwerty key line - if we really need those on hotkeys, perhaps that is overdoing it?

I'd like to see the Cell Info panel split into two, the first one with top four lines in it hotkeyed since those lines are what is most frequently used. Maybe the two panels should go on PrtScr, ScrLK, Pause keys?

Not everything needs to be hot keyed. Also I suppose all commands should still be accessible from (some) menus as is standard in programs. This is just a shot at initial setup, critique and suggestions are in order.

Note that I reversed the sequence of the layer order relative to how it is now in the drop down menu. I put front layer first, since that is where the bulk of use is, next middle and last back layer.

 

[iJam]

I wouldn't remove wasd, I have scroll bars and still wasd is crucial for mapping speed.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[SmavidDavid]

I wouldn't remove wasd, I have scroll bars and still wasd is crucial for mapping speed.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Need them scrollbars tho bro! <3 ...

Can i get a summary @Akaras what you're upto? I see ALOT of text and aint nobody got time for dat.

 

[Akaras]

Thanks for the ideas for the shorcut keys mir2pion I'll use that as a guide for now and if anything needs changing later it is not much of a problem to change any of the keys

Having used the scroll bar to navigate the map I also agree the wasd is needed as the scroll bar gets you in the general area and the wasd is like fine tuning and moving around the area...

also would ctrl+z not be good for undo to make it more of a standard shortcut... or is the ` for undo and 1 for redo a better choice because it is in a better position for you? I don't use the programme enough to know

Can i get a summary @Akaras what you're upto? I see ALOT of text and aint nobody got time for dat.

• Adding some quality of life things at first as requested like some small updates to add shortcut keys to some of the main buttons...
• scroll bar on the map view (I already added this on my version)
• having a go (if I can) at redoing the object preview screen so it is an image preview list rather than a file location list
• I'll also try and find how to copy paste selected areas of the screen so it is easier to duplicate parts of the map without making new objects

that is about it for now... but I might add more things when I finish the first updates

 

[mir2pion]

Chalace, you mentioned you adjusted zooming steps in your editor. That is definitely in order, mainly the last two steps zooming in need tweaking. To see the whole map, often the step before the last is not enough and the last one makes the map unnecessarily too small.
In addition, if you return from maximum zoom out, by zooming back in by one step, it zooms out much bigger amount than when it was zooming in on this previous to last step (simply put, it doesn't retrace the steps exactly when zooming back in, on the first step of it anyway). The glitch is probably related to the particular map size or is random or happens because of memory problems that accumulate and need to be sorted by editor restart.

Ideally I would like to have a button that would directly fit the map to your window size in a single step (fit the longer side to window view while preserving aspect ratio). When I was cataloging mir3 maps, taking screenshots of them, I ran into this problem with zooming maps very frequently. And it is handy to occasionally survey your creation in its entirety but not minimized to 'postage stamp', without having to go through several zooming out steps.

I love that sig line, that 'nobody needs bigger maps than 1000x1000' (reminds one of the similar comment on RAM size in early days of computing).
It would be nice if even bigger size was allowed than the 2k you made for yourself, maybe even 2k5 or why not go straight for 3k. I might have a project for ~ 2k5 size (I don't intend to have such large maps hosted on servers, the map size would come handy for making mir world map).

 

[iJam]

Gyazo

gyazo.com

I made a one-off big map Don't go there you'll never return
Earliest backup dated Nov18 still not completed it

 

[Chalace]

Unless you circumvent the 2GB cap, you're not going to be able to make anything bigger. Once you start populating it is when the problems start.

I wouldn't advise anyone to make anything bigger than 1000*1000. I doubt I will again after this one at 1300*. (It took me a year to populate 3/4 of it the first time around)

 

[mir2pion]

Having used the scroll bar to navigate the map I also agree the wasd is needed as the scroll bar gets you in the general area and the wasd is like fine tuning and moving around the area...

I agree and I won't say you can do that with arrows - the whole idea of WASD is to have scrolling handily accessible for left hand while right moves the mouse around. In case someone around doesn't know, being of younger generation, it harks back to the older gaming days when you would use WASD keys for stepping through dungeons while bashing mobs with mouse clicks with your right hand.

would ctrl+z not be good for undo to make it more of a standard shortcut... or is the ` for undo and 1 for redo a better choice because it is in a better position for you?

That would probably be even better. Reason I put it higher up on keyboard to ` & 1 was that post by Far a while back on map editor thread where he said Z & X keys swap tile to previous & next one respectively. I would definitely like to have this feature, maybe keyed to < & > keys (that is to , & . keys, so you don't need to use shift).

I didn't consider modifying key(s) because when it comes to F keys and more so to number keys row, it might be harder to remember those. But for Undo/Redo that would be OK. Undo is more important than Redo, many times you just want to step back and not return. So why not put Undo on Z key and Redo on Ctrl-Z
BTW, with every windows install, I remap keyboard, swapping Alt & Ctrl keys on both sides of keyboard, I started my computing life on Mac and found Cmd key ergonomically in better place than Ctrl on windows is for cut, copy & paste).

Also great opportunity to use my Cooler Master keyboard to advantage - I can assign led colors to any key, so making related hot keys same color for this editor project will make it more manageable.

 

[Akaras]

1300x1300 map is only 1,690,000 cells don't know what the problem is lol :P

 

[Chalace]

1300x1300 map is only 1,690,000 cells don't know what the problem is lol

Doesn't sound like much when you put it like that

 

[mir2pion]

Don't go there you'll never return

ROFL
I like that memory readout on your editor program header

Once you start populating it is when the problems start.

Just to be sure, you mean problems as in lots of work (which no doubt it is), or is it as you populate the map, it becomes too heavy on memory usage and the editor is prone to collapse (like when scrolling around such map)?

As I noted, I am not after making new maps of such size. Also reading those past discussions on having two or more euro sized provinces on a single map or having caves continue 'from outdoor to quasi indoor' without changing maps... I got cured of such ideas.
I am into nostalgia work with existing euro mir maps, improving on them. Like in years past, I played with arranging province minimaps into a mir world map but came up against mismatches (like most notable are the two passages btw Monchong and S Valley, they are different distance apart on the respective maps). And of course it is more tempting to do it using 'Big maps' size or even better with real sized actual maps (that would need to be resized afterwards to something smaller in some better quality resizing program). And for that you need map space or maybe at least some more space than 1000 coordinates square so you can add a map edge from one province map to another province map if that makes sense.

Here, I would copy South Mongchon map cliff border onto the North side cliff border of Snake Valley map and attempt to reconcile them. Then copy the changes back to Mongchon map. So in effect, if you then wanted to put Mongchon and Snake Valley on a single map, you could just copy paste them together and they would just fit together nicely. I do realize that is mostly nostalgia project but I have more ideas to freshen things up with those euro maps.

With hopes for infinitely better grasping methods, such a project should become much much easier. Don't you just love these asian translations like grasping? I once ran into a chinese guy on mir who asked me for a 'match' (he didn't even ask, he just repeated 'match'...) and it took me a while to realize he was asking if I got a spare candle or torch. I suppose he consulted a dictionary and found a related word.

 

[Chalace]

Just to be sure, you mean problems as in lots of work (which no doubt it is), or is it as you populate the map, it becomes too heavy on memory usage and the editor is prone to collapse (like when scrolling around such map)?

Of course, the more you add, the more memory it takes to load.

I started having issues about halfway through last time (i.e not being able to fully zoom out)
Baring in mind, fully zoomed out only shows 3/4 of the map. Trying to go any bigger is just asking for trouble.

Simply opening my map now and zooming out, I'm at 850k. And still a long, long way to go.

 

[Martyn]

Thanks for the ideas for the shorcut keys mir2pion I'll use that as a guide for now and if anything needs changing later it is not much of a problem to change any of the keys

Having used the scroll bar to navigate the map I also agree the wasd is needed as the scroll bar gets you in the general area and the wasd is like fine tuning and moving around the area...

also would ctrl+z not be good for undo to make it more of a standard shortcut... or is the ` for undo and 1 for redo a better choice because it is in a better position for you? I don't use the programme enough to know

• Adding some quality of life things at first as requested like some small updates to add shortcut keys to some of the main buttons...
• scroll bar on the map view (I already added this on my version)
• having a go (if I can) at redoing the object preview screen so it is an image preview list rather than a file location list
• I'll also try and find how to copy paste selected areas of the screen so it is easier to duplicate parts of the map without making new objects

that is about it for now... but I might add more things when I finish the first updates

A-*******-men I might stand a chance at making something!

How hard to convert to 64bit?

 

[iJam]

64bit is a much needed convert.

It'l hang on in there

Gyazo Screen Video

gyazo.com

worst-case scenario

 

[mir2pion]

The previous post outlining hotkeys is superseded by this one here.

F1 WemadeMir2
F2 ShandaMir2
F3 WemadeMir3
F4 ShandaMir3

F5 Map                                    [Ctrl-F5 Hide/Show Top image [Toggle] (reserved)]
F6 Hide/Show Front image     [Toggle]
F7 Hide/Show Middle image  [Toggle]
F8 Hide/Show Back image      [Toggle]

F9 Show/Hide Cell Info 1       [Toggle]
F10 Show/Hide Front tag       [Toggle]
F11 Show/Hide Middle tag    [Toggle]
F12 Show/Hide Top tag         [Toggle]    (reserved)

` None
1 Place Top image (reserved)
2 Place Front image
3 Place Middle image
4 Place Back image
5 Place Objects
6 Clear Top image (reserved)
7 Clear Front image
8 Clear Middle image
9 Clear Back images
0 Brush Mir2 Big Tiles
- Brush Mir3 Big Tiles
= Brush Small Tiles

R Objects
T Tiles
G Grid
N New Map [with OK button mapped to Enter]
O Open Map
Z Undo [Ctrl-Z Redo]

, Previous tile (< key)
. Next tile       (> key)

Notes:

F9 Show/Hide Cell Info 1 [Toggle] <- Ideally this "Cell Info 1" would contain just the first four lines of the current info panel since that gets most use. I thought 'Cell Info 2' could contain the rest and be mapped to F9 with Ctrl modifier key
[Ctrl-F9 Show/Hide Cell Info 2] [Toggle]
But on second thought, I'd leave it as it is currently in menu, those bottom lines don't get that much use as the top half of that info panel. If you need it, it would be in the menu, the full info panel as it is now. But if we could get the new reduced, four line info pop up at mouse tip when pressing F9, that would be awesome.

If someone wonders why did I put Objects panel on R key, that is because above it a little to the right is number 5 key which selects Place Objects and still above it, again a little to the right, is the F5 key that opens map for the object to be placed on it... Also this choice leaves O to be assigned for Open (maps).

Leaving keys 1&6 unassigned for a future possible addition of Top layer is ambitious (it would do for Front layer what Middle layer is doing for Back layer - being alternate layer for it), but at least currently it leaves empty space that inserts a logical divide among the buttons.

The leftmost key of number row, `, will select 'None'. Easy to hit and it switches off the choice made in the Layer menu, very handy and a must key to have. I just mention it because it may seem like funny choice to put in menu (never mind even assigning it to a hotkey) to some who don't use the editor much.

Those drop down, View and Layer menus, should stay (the same or in some different form). First time or occasional user would find them handy and I think even experts here will use them if just dipping in for some limited editor use. Hotkeys will be used mainly in 'production usage' and the repetitiveness of the tasks will soon make them quite familiar. Labeling the keyboard or getting one of those with backlit keys of one's choice would help.

Assigning keys for grasping will have to wait until Akaras makes the changes, can only wish him godspeed.

 

[Akaras]

I've uploaded a version I would like someone to test to see if I have broken anything... or if it even works hehe :P

Changes:

• Added (All?) shortcuts suggested in previous post by mir2pion (don't think I missed anything)
• The number keys that select the layer should update the dropdown menu to show what layer you have selected
• I didn't change the cell info panel to display less info (I was feeling lazy lol sorry) but the shortcut turns it on/off quickly so should be good for now
• Added Scrollbars to the map view +hopefully fixed all the bugs that caused
• Added a SplitContainer panel to the objects tab so you can resize the list
• Moved a few buttons that are less used into the file menu area
• Changed the grasping slightly... if you select an area and right click you can either choose to delete all selected or create an object (delete all doesn't save the undo information so be careful)
• I did add the shortcuts for the Top layer code to be added but //commented out until new layer added (if it is required)

I took a long time figuring out what the ` key is called in the code... my google search was pretty useless calling it a tilde ~ because of the US keyboard layouts and also results suggested it is the ' key next to the ~ ... but finally I found it is Keys.Oem8

Getting the scrollbars to scroll correctly at a zoomed out view also took me a good while... they wouldn't scroll all the way and needed the maximum value updating on each zoom (the map Offset was causing me problems)

Anyway here is the Download for the .exe

it may be safer to backup your old files just in case my files break anything... although I didn't update the save method or any of the map data (yet) so we should be fine

 

[Chalace]

A bit more progress; almost finished.

The tile contrast isn't nearly as prominent ingame.

Started filling out all the area around town, but it looked pretty ****.
Decided to give it a facelift.

Trying a new method this time. Instead of doing everything one object at a time*10,000 (which is why it took a week to fill out the last area). I made 2 dozen object set's first and will just use them. Each 'strip' is 1-2 ready built objects.

Post automatically merged: Aug 7, 2019

I've uploaded a version I would like someone to test to see if I have broken anything... or if it even works hehe

Changes:

• Added (All?) shortcuts suggested in previous post by mir2pion (don't think I missed anything)
• The number keys that select the layer should update the dropdown menu to show what layer you have selected
• I didn't change the cell info panel to display less info (I was feeling lazy lol sorry) but the shortcut turns it on/off quickly so should be good for now
• Added Scrollbars to the map view +hopefully fixed all the bugs that caused
• Added a SplitContainer panel to the objects tab so you can resize the list
• Moved a few buttons that are less used into the file menu area
• Changed the grasping slightly... if you select an area and right click you can either choose to delete all selected or create an object (delete all doesn't save the undo information so be careful)
• I did add the shortcuts for the Top layer code to be added but //commented out until new layer added (if it is required)

I took a long time figuring out what the ` key is called in the code... my google search was pretty useless calling it a tilde ~ because of the US keyboard layouts and also results suggested it is the ' key next to the ~ ... but finally I found it is Keys.Oem8

Getting the scrollbars to scroll correctly at a zoomed out view also took me a good while... they wouldn't scroll all the way and needed the maximum value updating on each zoom (the map Offset was causing me problems)

Anyway here is the Download for the .exe

it may be safer to backup your old files just in case my files break anything... although I didn't update the save method or any of the map data (yet) so we should be fine

Good stuff, I'll have a play around once I finish the section I'm working on.
Most likely won't be till tomorrow.

 

[Akaras]

thanks no rush

the new way of creating areas sounds like a great way of doing it... creating larger areas of mixed objects should fill in big areas much quicker that one object at a time... and adding extra single objects after should make them not feel repeated

 

[Chalace]

thanks no rush

Decided to take a look at your update anyway. Everything seems to work fine.
Obviously, it will take some getting used to remembering all the keybindings.

No real complaints, it looks good, really.
The only comment being, I would have preferred the jump & free memory buttons to stay. Unless you have something planned, there is a tonne of wasted space now.

the new way of creating areas sounds like a great way of doing it... creating larger areas of mixed objects should fill in big areas much quicker that one object at a time... and adding extra single objects after should make them not feel repeated

Yeah, it is significantly faster, especially when the areas I'm working with are so large.
I do still need to go in and edit bits, as the tiles defining the strips differ slightly, and sometimes swap a few objects around if 2 of the same trees are close, etc. But it's still much more efficient. Also a lot less tedious.

Took me 10(?) days to do the last section, about the same size, one object at a time. Probably somewhere around 30-40 hours.
In 2-3 hours of half-focused work, I've done 25% of this one. Definitely will be doing this moving forward.